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Started by #610414 [Ignore] 14,May,20 02:51
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You are doing a good job of challenging me on this topic and I will try hard to be as honest and accurate with my answer.
I really do not believe in a creator, but I also do not believe there is no creator. That is because I dont believe period and believing one way or the other would still be believing, which I define as completely accepting something as the truth, without evidence it is true. I really see no evidence at all for the existence of a creator, but there is no proof that a creator doesnt exist. I do see only evidence for things just happening naturally. And even though Ive had experiences that some people might put a supernatural explanation on, I consider it lazy reasoning to see them as evidence of anything supernatural. But, it does make me interested in the subject. Ive watched many videos of people debating the subject. There just is no one that has ever come close to making a good argument on the existence of God, a deity, a supernatural being or beings or anything supernatural at all.
@Twowarmtts3!
Not having evidence, hard facts, if you will, does not mean there's no creator. Take a beam of light and it will iluminate an object in it's path. If nothing is in the way, there's no way to see that light but, if the lantern that produces that light has an on switch, you can believe there's a light. God, to me, is that way. I can't see him or hear him, or even feel him, but, I see our universe and I have to ask myself, "How?"
It's impossible to have nothing, because nothing implies something to be nothing off.
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I have a high standard for what I consider evidence and an almost unattainable standard for what I consider proof.
Twowarmtts3
But because you can't find proof, does not mean that proof doesn't exist. In the meantime, most of us BELIEVE. Yes, like you that are 99% sure there's no creator, we are 99% sure a creator exists.
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Still, that leaves me with only a 99% certainty there is no creator. That one percent is rooted in the question: Why is there something rather than nothing?. First this makes me ask, if the existence of nothing is even possible, because if something exists, it is not nothing. The idea that our reality wouldnt be possible without a creator is not logical to me. If a universe cannot exist by itself, then why should a supernatural being, who can will a universe into existence, be able to exist by itself
Twowarmtts3
First, you assume the creator would have to be alone when he created us. Why can there not be two or three or a whole bunch of creators? But, now, how do you explain a bunch of creators? This is the point that even a physiscist gives up and simply says, "I believe.".
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The watchmaker comparison is nonsense to me, because every watchmaker has a mother, who had a mother, who had a mother, etc. And its absolutely logical to me that it started with something so simple, it cannot even be called life. If a creator is not needed for living beings, it is not needed for the universe, which also started from something so small it cannot be called a universe. The only doubt that is left to me on that subject is that Im limited by my understanding of this reality/universe, while there is most likely more than that. An empirical mind does not conclude anything on that tiny chance for the existence of a creator.
Twowarmtts3
Life exists. We don't know what it is, We don't know where it came from. We don't even know where it's going, but, can you honestly say that at our physical death our essence stops too? Some say yes, others say no, but either way, it's a belief.
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Then you illustrate the idea of a creator who would listen to people thinking something in their head and changing reality or causation to suit the persons request. Im 99.9% certain that there is no creator who is interested in us that way. But still, if I would be responsible for someones life and I cannot do anything more to help that person, I would still do my best to make a heartfelt prayer or I wouldnt do everything I could do. I would even apologize for the hypocrisy of praying while not being able to believe it would help.
Maybe that's one reason for why I would never want to make myself responsible for someones life. I can never give them my best.
Twowarmtts3
The idea that there's a creator is too complex. It will kill your mind if you try to pursue it till you have an answer, but, at the moment you desperately want for your patient to keep on living, you admit to yourself, unconsciously that there's a creator that may hear your pleas. That, Sir, is belief.
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My consideration for the existence of such a creator is on par with me considering an afterlife. Its just so apparent to me that the identity of a person is dependent on their brain. Any damage to it results in a diminished person. Even if I like the idea of something remaining of my experiences and personality after I die, other than things I leave behind and the ripple effect of my actions, its just highly unlikely to me. And its even more unlikely to me that I would experience something nice or horrible, depending on how I lived.
Twowarmtts3
As a Christian I believe in an afterlife. The essence of that is beyond my comprehension. The rest is man made religious boogie man holds on the followers.
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Finally, there is absolutely 0% of me who considers that any of the religions were founded or inspired by that creator. My primary school and secondary education were both Christian, so Ive heard a lot of the bible stories.
I value that I was introduced to them, I also like the character of Jesus, I even accept there is a historical origin for the stories, but I can only see the work of people in them. Some of them clearly represents the best morality iron age people had to offer and some of it clearly intended to ensure the survival of the religion itself, but nothing I think can help me more to be a good person than the golden rule; treating others as one wants to be treated.
Christian education might even be partially responsible for me thinking for a long time that sex was dirty and something to be ashamed off, which I still have not conquered completely yet. There is something like that in all religions and is ridiculous to me that a supernatural creator of everything would care, when our biology is based on it. Its just clear that men would design religion as the only way to absolve people from a sin that is part of human nature and then threaten people with the most horrific punishments for eternity when they sin and dont get absolved.
Religion is just a perfectly designed control system.
Twowarmtts3
All religions are man made. We can choose to believe in them or not, But, there's a higher point that one can believe and it has little to do with religion. It's what I hold true and unshakeable. That is the existence of a benevolent creator. I pray to Him, but, I don't expect anything. It does make me be a better person. I hope I didn't bore you with my ramblings.
You acknowledge that religion is man made, but you claim that the existence of a benevolent creator (or multiple) has little to do with religion. I sort of agree, because the idea of it was the source of religion. Primitive people, thousands of years ago, didn't understand anything about the world and nature and assigned intention and intelligence to natural phenomena like the sun, the planets, the weather, volcano's, earthquakes, seasons, etc.. People invented explanations for when the natural phenomena 'blessed' or 'punished' them. 'The god of thunder is angry.' People started organizing into bigger groups and religion was invented to control early civilization. Some civilizations thrived, because their religion had a beneficial effect on the coherence of the civilization. Some religions died off, because their god demanded too much human sacrifice. And so religions evolved to the strong remaining ones that are left today.
In the past religion was the only source of knowledge. But reason and the accumulation of information started explaining regularities in nature, like the seasons. Knowledge progressed and people created mathematics, physics and chemistry. Religion revolted, because they wanted to remain the only source of knowledge and power (knowledge=power). Science progressed to explain away more and more of the claims of religion, like disease is a punishment from god, when people behaved in a way that the religious power wanted to have control over. In the past, people believed all the stories in the religious books literally, because they had no information opposed to it. But that started changing. Science proved evolution is reality and all of biology makes use of the scientific system that it is part off. Some religious people accept it and assimilated the reality in their world view, many religious people deny it, don't want to inform themselves about the science, but prefer to listen to creationist apologists, who lie about the science, so the religion doesn't suffer from information that contradicts their holy books. The creationists are split into groups that believe the holy books literally, groups that believe the holy books are metaphorical life lessons and groups that include you.
The afterlife was clearly invented to relieve grief, in harsh times when life was cheap. It is also very useful for rulers who want to wage war to increase their power. You cannot motivate soldiers with just gold, if their chance of surviving is slim. But it's off course a very popular idea, because people fear death. Still their is no better motivation for people, than the fear of eternal torture.
Now science has explained almost everything, the creator has been diminished from the god that created Adam and Eve (lets stick to just Christianity for simplicity), to one or several creators, who created the universe, or the multiverse, or anything in between those ideas, depending on how acceptable people are of scientific proof, scientific theories, scientific evidence and/or scientifically confirmed hypotheses. The credibility of scientific knowledge grows by the day, while the clarity of religious knowledge has declined from the explanation of everything to life lessons, where you have to separate the 'good' parts from the parts that condone slavery, mass murder, child sacrifice and r*a*p*e*.
So you see evidence of creation in all that is good and great. But a patient bleeding out is also a reason to believe in creation. Realistically, you can see creation in everything. Even if science proves everything has been self organizing from matter created in the 'big bang', that itself will be a reason to believe in creation. It's probably impossible to refute that, so there will always remain a reason to believe in that creator.
But, why are you so sure about the existence of a creator?
Have you seen things being magicked into existence lately?
Looking at the night sky, I realize how amazing the universe is. It's also a very empty, hostile and dead place, except for this tiny earth (as far as we know now). If earth wasn't as favorable to life, we wouldn't be here thinking about how great it is.
You see a child being born and you think of a creator? The woman is doing all the work!
We cannot disproof a creator, but we cannot disprove the existence of anything.
A powerful being could have willed our universe into existence. We cannot explain how, because it's a powerful being. There is nothing more to learn there, so science can just continue explaining everything else. There could have been an alien race in another universe creating universes with a giant particle accelerator, powered by a black hole
(or whatever works in their universe). We could all live in a simulation, made by powerful beings. Or it's just me and everything is just created for me. I think therefore I am.
You know you're 'real', so you can think that for yourself.
It's all possible. The problem is; who created the creator?
Well, Ananas, that's all I've got.
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Ananas, just to clarify. Religion and religious beliefs are not the same for all.
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Some truths
My creator I call Jesus for the lack of a better name.
I do celebrate in his house as I know it. I dont drop to my knees and genuflect in fear nor in happiness. My suplications are on behalf of others. Ive only known one man of the cloth, Father George. In the Orthodox Church they can marry and he had a family. He was a nice man. He used to say, It doesnt matter how you pray. The words are not important. Its your intent that matters. He would listen. I miss him.
You have explained your motivations for your believing very well and I see they come from a good place. It obviously makes you happy, it's part of your identity and you are a good person with it. I'm sure you would be a good person without it too, but even if I could, it wouldn't feel right to try to take it from you. I'm not an anti-theist and when it's enriching peoples lives and they are not harming the freedom of others, I have no problem with religion.
We have many religious friends who like to discuss their ideas occasionally. I'm not even trying to challenge their believes and I'm only explaining mine if they ask for it.
It results in very interesting discussions, if we are not only respectful, but even careful of each others convictions.
Even though politics can be just as personal to people, that is fair game for me, because politics doesn't deal with the soul, but how we treat each other on this earth.
What I wonder is why anyone thinks its their business to rat on another member indirectly through the back door
The kids are mean and calls Jimmy stupid all the time.
Their favorite joke is to offer Jimmy his choice between a nickel and a dime.
Jimmy always takes the nickel.
One day, after Jimmy takes the nickel, another older boy who felt sorry for him, takes him aside and says...
"Jimmy...aren't you tired of these kids making fun of you? Don't you know that a dime is worth more than a nickel, even though the nickel's bigger?"
Jimmy with a smile on his face, replies...
"Well, if I took the dime, they would stop doing it, and so far I've made $20!"
A little old retired female Chief checked into a motel on her 70th birthday, but she was a bit lonely.
She thought,........
"I'll call one of those men you see advertised in the phone books for escorts and sensual massages."
She looked through the phone book, found a full page ad for a guy calling himself Tender Tony - a very handsome man with assorted physical skills flexing in the photo.
He had all the right muscles in all the right places, thick wavy hair, long powerful legs, dazzling smile, six pack abs and she felt quite certain she could bounce a quarter off his well-oiled butt....
The retired Chief figured, what the heck, nobody will ever know.
She give him a call.....
"Good evening, ma'am, how may I help you?"
Oh my, he sounded sooo sexy! Thought the retired Chief.
Afraid she would lose her nerve if she hesitated, she rushed right in,......
"Hi, I hear you give a great massage, I'd like you to come to my motel room and give me one.....
No, wait, I should be straight with you. I'm in town all alone and what I really want is sex. I want it hot, and I want it now. Bring rubber, leather, whips, everything you've got in your bag of tricks......
We'll go hot and heavy all night - tie me up, cover me in chocolate syrup and whipped cream, anything and everything, I'm ready!! Now how does that sound?" asked the Chief.
The man on the phone replied,.......
"That sounds absolutely fantastic, but you need to press 9 for an outside line."
Biden's approval rating stood at 52% in a recent CNN poll conducted by SSRS, with 69% of Americans saying things are going badly in this country. Sixty-two percent of Americans said that economic conditions in the US are poor -- up from 45% in April. That's bad news for Democrats, who only enjoy a majority because Vice President Kamala Harris is the tie-breaking vote in the chamber.
The democrats said they would fix covid and all the problems we were having.
um,have you noticed any improvement?
only registered users can see external links
Note they did not separate them .DUE TO STRESS> as if humans don't have stress from separation.
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I think politics stink, their all corrupt, and I don't vote for anyone
Having said that, Biden and his team (that includes the CDC and the pharma conglomerates) are trying very hard to get everyone vaccinated. You and many others dont believe on the vaccine. Why? I dont know. You had a whole slew of vaccines as you were growing up. You had to in order to attend school. Now, because a Clown and his party, in order to throw a monkey wrench on the works, have been telling you vaccination is bad for you. And they do it because they want to be re-elected, not because they worry about the people or the country.
But I was to young to judge for myself legally.
I am not vaccinated, and it is NOT because of what a politician says or does.
It is because of the side effects and the way it affected people I care about.
I also have health issues, such as irregular heart beat and I am a TBI survivor. I do NOT want to take a vaccine that could cause further brain issues or heart issues than I already endure every fucking day of my life.
I am not antivax, I am anti-having it shoved down my throat.
Who is to say I am alive because of all those shots???
Why isn't what they pump into my body my concern and why would I not have the right to decide? Hell,women want babies sucked out of them while on their lunch break. HUMAN BABIES. But oh you HAVE TO TAKE THiS SHOT
Part of the double standard. My body my choice only if it relates to sucking out babies.
For your information you get the fucking shot and youll get a sore arm. Stick a Vaccum cleaner hose up your ass and, then, maybe, you might get an idea what a woman goes through. And it doesnt end there. She goes home and has to endure physical and emotional pain. Go, carry your little placard KILL$RS OF BABIES. You think because you got snipped that is the solution? You poor fool.
All they have to do is choose responsible male partners and use precautions and the vacuum would not be needed at all. No emotional pain to suffer.
I still ask the same question and never get a answer as to why only the male should be expected to act responsibly while the woman just fucks and acts like a whore with no accountability?
IT TOOK a male and a female to make the baby.So 2 people are at fault,NOT just 1.
He's greeted at the door by his wife and she asks him....
"What are you grinning for?!"
The Master Chiefs asks her.....
"If I won the lottery what would you do?"
The wife answers him without any hesitation....
"I would divorce you and take half the money!"
The Master Chief with even a bigger grin replies.....
"Ok, well I just won $10, heres $5 now get the hell out!"
But this link makes me sick to think that people from both sides of the isle can say such.
only registered users can see external links
only registered users can see external links
Your aged like a fine wine,except
the fine bit is missing.
And you know what that means dont
You? Fuckin vinegar. Like the
Prawn story, Great body but fucked
Head. In your case it's irrelevant
twowarmtts3
No balls. Even his insults sound like melted butter.
In a private conversation to you, it's fine if you want to tell them to "fuck off" or whatever. The "MOTHER FUCKING HOMO" was too much. The "WHORE MAMA" and abortion on the butcher's floor elevates it to another level.
Me
All good points, but, thats how I fight my verbal battles
SKITTLES FIRST PUNCH: This is a true story about the Saggy Granny. It is VERY disturbing. Members should use caution.
SECOND PUNCH: Get to fuck you old crow!
And take your 48 hours and shove it up that slop pit you call a cunt.
THIRD PUNCH: you are nothing but a crow up on the power line. I see your true colors are shining as always! You fool no one with your faux peace offering.
FOURTH PUNCH: we have always known Twowarmtts3! is from a scummy family.
FIFTH PUNCH: I am still dropping heavy ordnance on her page (TWTTs page)
SIXTH PUNCH: You are a low-life hillbilly. Enjoy the trailer park!
SEVENTH PUNCH: Loon- Guess you are talking to yourself ... again!
Eight PUNCH: twowarmtts3 you have had a hard life! Poverty is a disease?
You are fully infected! Trailer trash!
While we were having this exchange, Skittles trashed my page not once, not twice, but three times. He also put trash comments on EVERY ONE of my pics and left many insulting comments on my page comments column. Do you think? Understand why I was so furious? Remember, I couldnt blacklist him until the 48 hr cooling off period expired. All that trash visible to the whole site. You didnt like it when I called you a bitch. That was nothing compared to this. Being called a bitch at least shows you have some character.
Members calling another member "cunt" bothers me because I just don't like the word. As you see, many times the word cunt seems to take the place of "mate", "buddy", "pal", it's a term of "endearment".
Me
You dont like the word. Ok. Does that mean other people have to change their vocabulary to suit you? And dont say this is your thread. The word, while not a great description of womanhood is as accurate as it gets.
When lix referred to me as cunt, I knew better and I did not always address those her posts OR your posts when you plastered that I was a "bitch" all over the forum. Why bother? My words and actions are a reflection of me, not you and conversely is true.
Me
I dont know. Why bother, indeed? But, Bella, that is a personal choice. You cant expect for all people to react like you.
What you and dgraff discuss privately is between the two of you. Strange, dgraff messaged me the other day saying that you didn't want to be the cause of a breakdown in friendship. Here's my response;
Me
Yes, you are right. Before I continue let me clarify. I did say many terrible things about Dgraff. So did he about me. Just look at what he wrote in the opinion; section on my page. The thing is that all through the time Ive been here in more than one account, he and I have had a friend/enemy relationship. Ok, now I can tell you about Dgraff when we are in private conversations. The man, with all his macho blustering, is a teddy bear and Im not sorry I befriended him. I was the one to do it first. He likes you. You are his idol. I dont want to be the one that gets in the way of your long friendship. If need be, he knows I wont hold it against him if he stops being my friend.
"dgraff, if you want to be friends with TWOWARMTTS3, that's up to you. If you can forgive and forget all the crap that she's posted and said about you, that's also up to you. Me, on the other hand, cannot/will not forget how many times she has called me a "bitch".
Me
So now you know the deal with Dgraff and me. I know you are still upset, furious even, that Ive called you a bitch. Its ok not to forgive/forget, but, that colors all your dealing with and about me. Like you, I accept it. Was it all my fault? Obviously Im going to say, No. You will obviously say, Yes.
She no longer has her posse, the members that reinforce her bad behavior and attitude and now she seems to want to jump the different side of the street, the side that many of us have been on for many years.
Me
This is something that I dont understand. You are obsessed with the idea Im in a cabal wishing you harm or perhaps wishing your friends harm. Why? I dont need or have I ever needed help dealing with what I consider The botched a####ons that seem to get their panties in a knot over some imagine slight.
Another thing, I think TWOWARMTTS3 is "fishing" for information regarding friendships. Strangely she apologized to another one of my friends for how shitty she has treated him, I have to wonder what's she's up to.
Me
Why do you consider it strange to apologize to someone when you do them wrong unfairly? And what, exactly would I be fishing for? Theres a handful of truths that are in play. Im not liked by you or your friends. You hate Lix, therefore Im to be pilloried. Anyone that insults me should be rewarded with your friendship. You try very hard for your group to ignore me.
What am I up to? The forums are not my first priorities. My chats with reasonable, sexy, friendly members is. What exactly do I care if Dev01s sensibilities got slapped? While I was answering him I was also chatting with 4 guys that like the idea of becoming my lover (never happen with an internet find). You and the people who frequent your thread ..no, I wont finish that.
I'm not sure why you feel that I "purposely" tried to start trouble between you and Freddy although I admittedly did state in his blog that you and TWOWARMTTS3 were now friends. I will continue to be cautious of people, I've been burned too many times to allow myself to forget it but follow your instinct, be friends with whoever you choose to be friends with."
Me
This part is not for me to comment. Its not about me.
Response from Bella!
As far as I was concerned, there was no need to critique my conversation with dgraff, I know what I said and I meant what I said. It was only to show you that I don't give a rat's ass who he is friends with. In my own way, I've "forgiven" you for all the nasty things you've said but as I said, I don't and choose not to forget because that is my nature. When "you" forget you allow yourself to become comfortable with things and allow yourself to be vulnerable.
I've tried being pleasant to you but quite often I just choose to ignore you. You have a need to be elevated, to be heard, to be seen. I'm comfortable being the woman that I am. Please, this thread is not the place to do a play-by-play on what Skittles said, what Dev01 said, what I said and there's no need to bring JustWill into the mix. Although I was not online the day "Barbara" unleashed and said what she said to be banned, I'm just going to say that I don't believe it one bit that there ever was a "Barbara" that created a profile and for that matter, neither does admin. When you have a verbal altercation, you are unfiltered, just like "Barbara". There's no way that I would believe it was anyone other than you that said what was said to JustWill and you had the same unrelentless style when you went after huxley999. Hand to God, father's grave, whatever...I don't believe you.
THE REPUBLICANS AND ANTI-VAXERS ONLY ACCEPTABLE METHOD OF COVID VACCINATION
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