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Global Warming... What do you Believe?

Discussion Forum on Show It Off

Page #21

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Started by #485312 [Ignore] 15,Dec,20 18:50
Fact or Fiction.... is it really happening???
what do you think contributes to it and what is
being done to stop it?

New Comment       Rating: -1  


Comments:
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 22,Sep,21 15:54 other posts 
Drought forces North American ranchers to sell off their future:
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Vulnerability of Cattle Production to Climate Change on U.S. Rangelands:
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Texas cattle herd declined 11% last year (2012):
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By #610414 23,Sep,21 11:28
I don’t know much about drought other than what most known. Not enough rainfall where it’s needed. I do know that there are many places in the world that use artificial irrigation from wells to run successful ranching. The initial cost could be subsidized by Uncle Sam
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 24,Sep,21 08:39 other posts 
There are solutions to many of the problems. We can all build irrigation, dikes, canals, cooled stables and greenhouses or just move production and people away from danger zones.
The costs of that and the damages we will still suffer from climate change will just very rapidly exceed the costs of preventing climate change.

And maybe some people will get relief with climate change mitigation, but many people won't. Do you feel confident that the government will help you and your family, when you suffer or get hurt, from exceptional heat or cold or some climate disaster?
By phart [Ignore] 24,Sep,21 11:18 other posts 
People talk about technology and "creating" jobs, why can't california pump water from the ocean and filter it and water their crops and live stock? Pump it to Nevada?
There are solutions, just no desire to use them.
By #610414 24,Sep,21 12:07
Here, in Key West, the Navy has a station with a huge desalination plant. After hurricanes when water gets cut or contaminated, the plant produces enough water to su stain the key (island) and lower keys. It’s slow, cumbersome, and very expensive. That is not a good option
Saudi Arabia gets almost all their water from desalination. It is about twice the price of conventional fresh water, but it still leaves some salt in it. It's drinkable, but if you use it for irrigation, it will slowly salinate the soil, until nothing grows there anymore.
By #610414 24,Sep,21 11:46
I have little confidence the government will help at the time needed. Red tape slows everything to a crawl. If I need to drill a well (I would farm the work out) I would start with a drill and work and work until done. If I needed to irrigate 20 acres I would need a BIG drill. If I needed to irrigate a county I would call the state or the Feds


By phart [Ignore] 23,Sep,21 20:28 other posts 
so you get the air all clean,then you smoke some weed and kill someone on the hwy, real smart eh??
Traffic deaths related to pot have nearly doubled in colorado. Good going libs!
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MY point in all this being, this issue is easy fixed,but yet,no one applies any effort to it at all.Apply the same effort to this problem as you do climate change and our country would be safer,and less law enforcement would be needed!


By phart [Ignore] 23,Sep,21 20:26 other posts 
So you clean up the air and as you are strolling along your drunk neighbor plows into you and kills you.


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This is from the wonderful CDC< so it has to be true.
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MY point in all this being, this issue is easy fixed,but yet,no one applies any effort to it at all.Apply the same effort to this problem as you do climate change and our country would be safer,and less law enforcement would be needed!


By phart [Ignore] 23,Sep,21 20:23 other posts 
About these issues? What good is clean air if our fish glow in the dark? OR ourselves glowing in the dark for that matter? Tree huggers seem to forget ,once a tree is exsposed to radiation, you can not eat it's fruit.
only registered users can see external links
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only registered users can see external links
only registered users can see external links

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MY point in all this being, this issue is easy fixed,but yet,no one applies any effort to it at all.Apply the same effort to this problem as you do climate change and our country would be safer,and less law enforcement would be needed!


By #275407 22,Sep,21 21:15
It is what it is. I really don't think anyone can change anything by stopping pollution and so,
By leopoldij [Ignore] 22,Sep,21 23:54 other posts 
And so? So are fucked?
It's definitely possible! Actually it only costs money and effort.
We stopped the destruction of the ozone layer. We just said: "No more CFC's!".
Now we should say: "A lot less CO2!"
By #610414 23,Sep,21 11:17
Cody, with all due respect, I think that’s BS, but, let’s say you are right. Do you believe stopping as much pollution as possible is a waste of time?
By #275407 23,Sep,21 12:30
I hate to say this, but Covid might be a good thing. We are over populated on this planet. By the time we recover, if we can, from climate change the bees will be gone to pollinate, the coral will be gone to support fish, fires will have consumed forests, which were not replanting as much as we were, the heating of the earth is changing the Gulf Stream which regulates heat and cold to this planet as much as supports the life of so many fish, I just don't see changes happening in time. To get this and other countries to stop producing pollution seems like near impossible. I can go on, but I would luv to be wrong. Time will tell.
By #610414 23,Sep,21 12:43
Don’t ever say that, lollipop. Covid is not a good thing no matter what. I believe you are confusing overpopulation in this world with overpopulation of certain parts of the world. I don’t like to bring China into this discussion, but, I just read an article that the government there is concerned with low birth rates. The USA is a huge empty country. Sure, the big cities are crowded, but, even in our state, you take the Turnpike and all you see is empty fallow land. Those other occurrences of nature may be natural but a large part is happening because humanity is lazy and refuses to do or spend anything. Will we be late to the party? I’m hoping not, but, we MUST try. Not for me. I’m well done already. Perhaps not for you either, but, I’ve got grandchildren who deserve our help for a good life. I do hope you are wrong.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 23,Sep,21 13:29 other posts 
Well maybe Covid did some good for the climate, because people saw that when we all pollute a lot less, you can actually see the sky, or the scenery a mile away. Other than that Covid was very expensive and did harm to the economy. We can best save the planet from climate change, when there are no other crisis to worry about and there is money to invest in new technology.

There are too many people in the world to have it sustain us all, but death and destruction never solves high population growth. All data shows prosperity slows population growth the most. The one challenge is to have prosperity, without destroying our (natural) resources. That's just a choice. We can choose to let people take maximum prosperity for themselves and destroying our (natural) resources,
so we will all suffer decline and despair later OR we can choose to share prosperity, not let some people exploit our (natural) resources and use the resulting progress
to prevent decline and despair.

That decline and despair is not just relevant to our grandchildren, it has already been going on for a while. Your chance of being severely affected is just still small right now. If you'd live in a poor area, around the equator, you would know. But rich countries are also starting to suffer the effects. Increasing numbers of people die in wildfires, floods, hurricanes, exceptional cold spells or from heat exhaustion. If you'd pay attention,
you would realize that you cannot avoid this for many decades. It's already causing discomfort, it will cause suffering very soon, it might kill you at any time and the probability of that is steadily increasing.
By #610414 23,Sep,21 16:22


By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 14:06 other posts 
OK all you liberals hold hands and shield the earth,another 1 may come!
only registered users can see external links

You can't legislate something like this away.
By #610414 21,Sep,21 20:47
But, Phart, that happened 3600 yrs ago. Jesus came to us in between. he Egyptian empire, the Roman, the Byzantine, the Austrian, The British and others have come and gone. And only one destroyed city? I think we can take a chance.
By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 20:49 other posts 
Hey we have 100 year flood plains,500 year flood plains, we could have 3600 year cosmic events ,who knows?

HEY ,poor Jupiter just caught something big,
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If a big space rock landed somewhere in Utah,like this hit jupiter,AOC would no longer be worried about cow farts I can promise you.
just a little teaser.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNtsVP42bOE
By #610414 21,Sep,21 20:53
I don't. Charlie worked for 10 yrs as a mechanical draftsman for the water control department of Miami-Dade County. They were in charge of drainage canals for low level, swamp lands in the county. All their planning was for a 100 yr storm (Heavy rains would clog the canals with water flow and upstream would flood.. That is the average. Nothing said that 2 100 yr storms would not hit in two years.
Hope it doesn't happen this year...
By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 20:58 other posts 
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By #610414 21,Sep,21 21:06
We have Bruce Willis to help
By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 21:12 other posts 
He would want to much friggen money. he was not in the last Expendables movie because he thought he was worth to much.
By #610414 23,Sep,21 11:35
I’ve always liked him from the time he had the TV show “Moonlighting”
but I think he is past his prime


By kebmo [Ignore] 16,Aug,21 16:46 other posts 
Liberals believe it and Conservatives don’t.
By phart [Ignore] 16,Aug,21 16:57 other posts 
I believe the climate is changing, it has been changing since the earth came into being .When the sun snuffs out ,the earth will be destroyed .

Imagine the earth as molten lava and rock and it slowly cooled. it's core still raging after millions of years.climate change is real,it is just not what the liberals want to make it out to be,a reason to put humans back into the stone age technology wise and and economically.
By kebmo [Ignore] 16,Aug,21 18:25 other posts 
I assumed that the question is referring to global warming due to humans using fossil fuels and coal.
By #610414 21,Sep,21 10:05
Phart, that's not true. This is not a liberal thing no matter how hard you try to make it so. This is for everyone's concern. Wake up, Red Neck. It will affect you too. The ice caps ARE melting. Miami Beach gets flooded practically every morning from higher and higher ocean waters. We have more and stronger tropical storms every year, heat indexes keep climbing. Liberals and every other thinking human being wants to see if we can stop or reverse this course of nature. We are doing it through science and conservation (practically the same). This is cutting edge technology.
By #275407 22,Sep,21 12:46
You forgot about the coral dying and the fish kills, just two degrees warmer and the coral reefs start to dye off and all the sea life is dying
By #610414 22,Sep,21 13:42
You are right. I forgot. We went diving at John Pennekamp in April and there’s so many patches dying it makes you want to cry. And don’t forget the flesh eating buggies found in lakes in the Carolina’s from the heat.
That’s why I don’t understand. You don’t even have to be technical to see what the change in mean temperature does to the environment. If you know the outdoors, you know it.
If you were truly conservative, wouldn't you like to prevent that climate from changing?

Stone age technology.... like burning coal?

Actually liberals like very modern technology, like solar energy and bio-fuels created with biotechnology.

And economically, this will give a tremendous boost in jobs.
By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 13:45 other posts 
Being conservative would tend to prompt me to not fuck with what is working. Gas and gas stations are the effective way to move people cross town or across the country.
Changing that system in a way to make it as effective is very costly. Money better spent curing cancer or improving the roads and power grid.
coal is easy mined, transported and burned to create useful electricity. The tech is here,it works,why spend a fortune to change a functional system?

HOW does it help with jobs?
OK, so you put a 1000 coal miners out of work. No college education, most probably in their late 40's.
The "new" jobs "created" by the solar and bio-fuels, require a education that coal miners don't have.
And employers tend to NOT hire people over 40 over someone in their 20's.
And for that matter automation replaces alot of work.So for the loss of a 1000 mining jobs,500 are "created" by the new tech ,what about the other 500?

And how does anyone's political leaning affect solar flairs ,volcanic eruptions, tsunami's and etc?
The only way politics can really affect the climate is to prevent terrorist from getting their hands on bioweapons and nuclear weapons.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 14:49 other posts 
Is your way of life not more important than what powers your car? That pickup truck will run just as good on ethanol, biogas or biodiesel (if it's a diesel).
If I was your president, I would pay you to get your car converted. It would cost a lot of investment money to build the ethanol, biogas and biodiesel factories and the solar- wind- and geothermal-plants to power them, but that money will come back mostly in taxes, because of the economic growth it will bring. We would need those ex-coalminers too, because converting your economy to green energy takes a lot of manpower. We don't need half the people for that, we might need 100 times more people.

Maybe some of them won't be smart enough to be operators in the bio-fuel factory, but I'm sure we can teach them to install solar panels, drive trucks with biowaste, drill pipes for geothermal energy, lubricate windturbines or some other jobs that takes less than years of training.
Do you think coalminers are that stupid? The few that are useless can stay at home.

You keep talking about money, but have you any idea how much climate disasters cost? Much, much, much more than all the solar flairs ,volcanic eruptions, tsunami's and etc. How about agriculture becoming impossible in most of your country?
Climate change will be more expensive than anything, until we are all dead.
By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 20:15 other posts 
Where you see growth, I see changing the position of the shells in a shell game.
The coal industry shrinks, the solar industry grows. No "New" jobs created out of thin air. Just different jobs replacing jobs already held at best.

Are you mechanically inclined? Have you used much biodiesel?
A friend put it in his Ford with the 7.3 and after about the 3rd tank we were replacing clogged filters and so forth.
Plus, cold weather, oh hell you better have good battery's.
And on top of all that, microbes! Now ol Wille nelson runs bio diesel in all his bus's and brags about it. but he can afford the extra maintance.

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By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 22,Sep,21 12:42 other posts 
Green energy is more labor intensive, but it's still cheaper. It's the TRANSITION that costs money and even more labor. But It's an INVESTMENT. The money is only temporary, because it will give a return on the investment. The labor is mostly temporary, because the TRANSITION is temporary, but it will grow the economy. After the energy transition, it requires less people to run it, but still more than with the old technology.

My car runs on petrol for 90%, the other 10% is bio-ethanol. I wouldn't mind converting to 100% ethanol, if it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg and I could tank 100% ethanol. I've never owned a diesel, but we tank 10% bio-diesel here as well. It's purely a supply problem that we can't use 100% biodiesel here, because all cars can run on bio-diesel now. It's just a quality issue if the filters clog up.

I would prefer to have everyone use electric cars, but until they are just as affordable, we need other solutions for the people who can't afford it.

However, we keep talking about cars, but that only has a small effect on carbon emissions. 70% of all CO2 is emitted by just 100 companies. Forcing/helping them to change to green energy is not as world changing as you fear.

Not changing to green energy will be more world changing than you fear.
By #610414 21,Sep,21 20:34
Phart, Sure you can continue with coal. But, can you assure us that that money will go for cancer research and cure or to rebuild our infrastructure? Or will that extra money be profits for the stock holders?
Another thing. Why does the rest of the country or the worl even, pay for the actions of people that go to work for the coal companies instead of getting a better, more useful education? Why should we worry about 50% of the miners workforce while thousands, yes, thousand's of people die every year from lung decease? I rather pay them full Social Security.--------------------------------------- added after 7 minutesNatural disaster happen all the time and have done so since the dawn of time. That is an extra we have to take care. I know you know Haity has suffered 2 major earthquakes and several hurricanes in the last 20 yrs. Those people don't have coal, but, they are so poor, the make their own charcoal. have you ever burned charcoal indoor? try it sometime. No, better not. The change of the type of work may be a trade off, but, a worker that works on win energy, can also work as a car mechanic or medical equipment tech or even teach. You know what coal workers can do when their coal work is over? Shoot their foot off and claim disability. Don't you ever look at the long term?
By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 20:48 other posts 
Yea, I do look at the long term. And the jobs that people want to do away with, most offer retirement and health insurance. Don't you know anyone that retired from a power company 10 years ago or so?
They probably have Great health insurance, and are drawing a similar amount of money during retirement along with stock dividends and etc.
INCOME that will support them in the LONG TERM.

Most upstart company's in the Trendy industry's like solar and wind, offer a wage and a prayer.
See where those folks that work for those company's are in 25 30 years. IF they don't save on their own, they will probably be screwed.
By #610414 21,Sep,21 20:58
You are wrong. Phart. I've been in the job market a lot longer than you and know what a good retirement is. It's not even close to what they were making b4. however, today you can get Obama Care at the same price as employee provided
By #610414 21,Sep,21 21:01
a solar panel or solar business is one of the most profitable businesses in today's time. However
even with rapid technological progress, the economics of wind and solar are unlikely to improve on their own. We can’t just sit back and wait for the price of renewable energy to fall. We'll either need continued policy support or significant changes to electricity systems if we expect the value proposition of wind and solar to improve. For both solar and wind, subsidies or other promotion mechanisms may need to continue for decades to ensure developers continue to build even when faced with reduced revenue.
the feds will have to support it for the short term
By phart [Ignore] 21,Sep,21 21:09 other posts 
The very fact it needs support to continue, should indicate flaws in the idea of solar and wind being viable.
Renewables would rise on it's own if it were viable.
I am not against the renewables in any way,I am only against tax funding and government mandated.
Generac for example ,along with Tesla,are putting home solar systems on tv. Private homeowners investing in it, for their own use, will eventually lower the cost as companys improve.
By #610414 22,Sep,21 07:57
Well, we funded General Motors, Boing, the oil industry, what's wrong with helping an enterprise that will help us in the future?
By #610414 23,Sep,21 11:31
Phart
Not fuck with what is working? IT’S NOT WORKING.


By #336173 22,Sep,21 13:48
Funding for research and development of new or renewable sources of energy is fine. The problem in the U.S. is politicians adding billions of $ in pork projects that have nothing to do with energy or climate research. IE parks, museums, the arts etc. It doesn't make sense to a lot of people to say we can't get funding unless we get all this bs stuff we don't need to get climate change resources.
By phart [Ignore] 22,Sep,21 16:11 other posts 
Yep,to much butt kissing. "I won't vote for this if you don't give me that".
OK ,so the water pipes are bad in many states, vote on a bill to replace them.
Ok,so alot of bridges are bad in many states, vote on a bill to repair them.
Quit putting 50 million dollars for research regarding the sex habits of the south american swamp rat into the bill.Or gender research in pakistan.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 23,Sep,21 08:52 other posts 
"research regarding the sex habits of the south american swamp rat"

I totally agree with you, because by that way you know exactly which politician voted
for or against which bill. That transparency could influence your voting.

But that's exactly why they don't want to do that. Because that pork in the bills is not for parks, museums or the arts, because that might give the people parks, museums and arts, that pork is full of bonuses for them and their donors.

(Scientists who research swamp rats don't make good donors. The donors are the weapons manufacturers, big tech, big oil, big pharma.)
By #610414 23,Sep,21 11:19
Isn’t that what the infrastructure bill is for?---------------------------------------

Pork has always been with us but, if it’s the most likely way to get you what you want then better a half pie than an empty plate.


By DeepThroatThis [Ignore] 22,Sep,21 10:44 other posts 
I'm not so sure. Is there a graph or chart over the last 100 years to show average temps like a stock chart?
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 22,Sep,21 11:31 other posts 
By DeepThroatThis [Ignore] 22,Sep,21 14:27 other posts 
thanks for the info
US trends for wildfires:


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