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Global Warming... What do you Believe?

Discussion Forum on Show It Off

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Started by #485312 [Ignore] 15,Dec,20 18:50
Fact or Fiction.... is it really happening???
what do you think contributes to it and what is
being done to stop it?

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By phart [Ignore] 28,Sep,22 11:51 other posts 
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So uh, hows it going with methane emissions lately? NOT WELL> and no fault of the consumers that are taxed and regulated to death because of "climate change">
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 28,Sep,22 12:13 other posts 
Many methane emissions are pure waste. Some are from leaking pipes, some are from waste water management and a lot is from landfills. It could all be prevented and there are solutions that can even produce methane from waste.
There is a project called MethaneSAT. They have satellites that can zoom in on the world in high resolution and find sources of methane emissions. Than they can track down the responsible company or government and pressure them to fix their wasteful emissions.
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By phart [Ignore] 28,Sep,22 14:07 other posts 
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I think this war is going to null and void alot of efforts made on the part of the people.

By lawrenceo [Ignore] 27,Sep,22 03:35 other posts 
There is only one real issue for the present time and that is there are too many people on the planet. This will cause more immediate trouble than global warming. Think COVID and then know that is just one of the diseases that will affect us as we increase the population further.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 27,Sep,22 05:51 other posts 
Nature is fighting back, at the plague, that is humanity.
However, the best way to reduce overpopulation is not to just let viruses rip through the population, because that creates poverty and poverty creates higher birthrates and further growth of the world population. Decades of statistics prove that vaccination and ending poverty is the best method for reducing population growth. Poor people have many children, so at least some grow up to take care of their parents at old age.
That and providing all people of the world access to contraception and retirement benefits, would be the best method to stop the world population from increasing.
It can only be achieved, if people stop being short-sighted and start caring about
the rest of humanity. I'm not calling it selfish, because it requires global cooperation
to save humanity and we are all part of humanity.

Climate change is one of the consequences of overpopulation, because we destroy nature for new places to live and all use energy from fossil fuels.
However, climate change is also the cause for many other problems in the world.
Actually, spreading of diseases is one of them. Tropical diseases are spreading
to new areas, that were previously not hot enough, to people who don't have any immunity to them, because the diseases are new to them.

Overpopulation means that the world is not capable of supporting the number of humans. The effects of global warming are all effects that reduce the number of people that the world can support. It destroys food production and makes areas too hot for human survival. It aggravates overpopulation, even if the population stays the same in numbers.

By phart [Ignore] 22,Sep,22 14:16 other posts 
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And since water vapor acts as a heat-trapping greenhouse gas, the eruption will probably raise temperatures instead of lowering them

Ok, so what say ye greenie weenies? are we going to fly around with rolls of Bounty paper towels and try to soak up this water?
By CAT [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 08:58 other posts 
What's your point? Mother Nature does as it pleases. So what?
By phart [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 10:16 other posts 
Well the liberal greenie weenie humans think they can catch farts in jars and stop "climate change" when in reality,mother nature will change it when ever it wants to and there is NOTHING we can do about it.BUT just as scientist are wanting to sprinkle stuff on the polar ice caps to refreeze them,some ass wipe will come up with a plan to fly around with a sponge or paper towels and try to soak up the water.
By CAT [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 12:36 other posts 
Sarcasm Phart?🤣🤣😈
By phart [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 14:30 other posts 
to a point. But seriously, there is nothing we can do to plug that volcano.
It will do damage and all we can do is adapt or die.
If we went all the way back to the methods of the stone age, these things would still happen and affect the climate. Just ask a Trex next time 1 comes strolling thru your neighborhood. he could tell you all about it,if the climate had not changed and caused his death.

Only good thing about going back to cave man methods,I might have a better chance of getting some!
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By CAT [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 16:27 other posts 
By biggg [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 17:23 other posts 
Strange that with all this extra water up there, the worst drought since 500 years in Europe. What goes up, must come down.... or not....
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 18:27 other posts 
You're right, and when it comes down, it comes down hard.
That's what happens in climate change; more extreme weather.
Droughts in one place, floods in another, both destructive.

A lot of that water vapor has ended up in Pakistan.
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"Around 33 million people, including approximately 16 million children, have been affected by this yearís heavy monsoon rains in Pakistan, which have brought devastating rains, floods and landslides. As many as 7 million people have been temporarily displaced. Some major rivers breached their banks and dams have overflowed, destroying homes, farms and critical infrastructure including roads,
bridges, schools, hospitals and public health facilities."

But you are starting to understand science; you are looking at trends, making predictions and then.... You would see the predictions coming true, if you would follow news outlets that actually shows real things that are happening in the world, like the increasing number of climate catastrophes, that keep confirming the predictions.
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 25,Sep,22 16:14 other posts 
Except there is NOT an increasing number of climate catastrophes. This is one thing that is well recorded, documented and understood.

Now I am not a sceptic and do believe there are problems with CO2 raising temperatures and increasing acidification.

However,I object very strongly to false claims (its like the boy who cried wolf.......). All that false claims like this do is make it easier for sceptics to dismiss climate activists claims - remember the famous hockey stick hoax?

Either stick to facts and confirmed peer reviewed science or risk being ignored.
Well, you're right on the facts. Water vapor is a greenhouse 'gas'.
But that's a problem that cannot be so easily solved.
However, that water vapor is temporary. It will raise the temperature for a while, but abundant water vapor rains down. Carbon dioxide doesn't rain down. It can only be absorbed by plants and trees and humanity has destroyed a third off the world's forest. The higher CO2 concentration raises the temperature, which also raises the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere, having a cumulative effect. We can solve that.
Humanity can solve what humanity has caused. That's our responsibility.
By phart [Ignore] 23,Sep,22 23:28 other posts 
Yep,I say we plant 100's of acres of peach trees and pecan trees and other fruit and nut bearing trees.Solve 2 problems at once, the idea would provide food and oxygen.
By CAT [Ignore] 24,Sep,22 07:28 other posts 
Not a bad idea. If I remember correctly, for every mature tree that gets cut down, two saplings should be planted. Don't forget TIME . Time for saplings to grow
Sure, who wouldn't agree with that?
And trees that grow hazelnuts and pistachios grow fine in pretty hot climates.
I just recently saw an article about the potential of breadfruit:
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It's part of the Surinamese cuisine, so I'm going to ask my neighbors if they ever eat it and what it's like.
--------------------------------------- added after 16 hours

My neighbors told me that breadfruit tastes great and is very versatile, but it's hard to get in The Netherlands and expensive. It probably that expensive here, because it expires quickly and has to be transported by plane from far away. We also don't want to buy the food poor people are relying on or jack up the price they pay for it, by having them export it for more money. I hope there are farmers planting lots of breadfruit trees on barren land, so it does solve 2 problems at once.
In any case, when my neighbor sees breadfruit in the shop, for an acceptable price, I asked her to buy one extra. I'll pay for both, if she cooks something good with it.
By phart [Ignore] 26,Sep,22 13:48 other posts 
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By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 27,Sep,22 05:23 other posts 
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By CAT [Ignore] 02,Aug,22 13:01 other posts 
I believe we are in deep shit and so many people just donít care enough to help or even admit the problem
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 03,Aug,22 08:29 other posts 
They will, when it's too late.

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By phart [Ignore] 03,Aug,22 09:28 other posts 
Well forgive me but as I have said before, it is difficult to put much stock in all the hype when the liberal government wants to TAX our way to a cleaner environment. Disregarding the cost, the hardship, the unemployment that a "cleaner" ,eh, higher taxed, policy will create.
A Carbon tax does nothing to clean the air.It just prompts higher cost of manufacturing that are passed along to the end user.
Come up with solutions that don't cause financial hardship deliberately. Build a electric car that cost the same as a gas car without using taxpayer funds to help pay for it.
it is not that Everyone doesn't care, it is just we see what has been a ongoing thing for century's being used to profit by a small few and break others down to poverty.
A electric Ford pickup only goes about 90 miles towing it's rated capacity. how the hell can a company profit from a truck that has to be charged every 2 hours during a 8 hour work day for example? This cost the companys much more money,and where does that increase get made up? Cost to the end user,be it a broke air conditionor being repaired by the guy driving the truck or the person using the products it carried.
By CAT [Ignore] 03,Aug,22 10:10 other posts 
You say, "Come up with solutions that don't cause financial hardship deliberately"
FIRST: you get taxed on a sliding rate. You don't pay the same as your rich neighbor. SECOND: problems in the environment have to be fixed. I'm sorry they cost tax money, but, that's the way it is. If you can get a rich middle eastern country like the United Arab Emigrates to pay for it, great. The Carbon Tax is a way (A poor way) to shift the tax burden to some other manufacturer. Don't like it? VOTE!!!!! We wouldn't be in this situation if the Robber Barons of the past had cared more about the public rather than getting rich. Now it has to be fixed. Don't like it? Move to Afghanistan. I'm pretty sure they don't have Carbon Taxes. Here we have to, need to protect ourselves and just because ONE person has a hard time, I'll be damned if I'll advocate to pull back.
--------------------------------------- added after 3 minutes

You know, no one is forced to buy an electric vehicle. Last I've checked, there's oodles of gas powered cars in the market. Quit bitching about government support. It's part of the plan to clean the environment. Don't like it? There's always Cuba.
By phart [Ignore] 03,Aug,22 12:32 other posts 
telling me and others to leave for cuba,ha, the greenies can move there and see how long it takes to "fix" those countrys.
By CAT [Ignore] 03,Aug,22 14:11 other posts 
You canít have it both ways. You either help or get out of the way
"A Carbon tax does nothing to clean the air"

Carbon taxes are the weak way to transition manufacturing away from fossil fuels.
But it does work, because manufacturers will then transition even faster to the already cheaper alternatives.

How many times have I now told you that cars are only a small part of the problem?
You only use it as an example, because you understand that cars are the more difficult challenge. Or is it just the ONLY thing you understand about the problem?

To solve problems most effectively, you start with the biggest contributor and/or which
is the easiest to solve. That is called the 'agile methodology'. It's not just choosing the most effective solutions, it's also implementing them in the most effective way.

That is transitioning electricity generation to renewable sources. The next challenge is transitioning manufacturing from fossil fuels to those sustainable electricity sources.
A challenge of the same level is helping people transition their housing to electricity. Transportation is the most difficult challenge, but solutions to do it cheaper are developed every day. It doesn't all have to be achieved tomorrow, but there is a pressing need to do it quickly and do the smartest things first.
By phart [Ignore] 03,Aug,22 15:28 other posts 
there is over a 100 acres of solar panels a mile from me as the bird flys. I had to listen to every damn pyle being driven in the ground for months.
We don't get any good out of them because it belongs to the other power company which our property line borders the divider created back in the 50's between the 2 major companys service areas.
Those folks are payin more for power now than a few years ago.
if solar was better, shouldn't the cost to the consumer be cheaper??
and you do know the Saudi's money that Trump arranged for loans from is what built them?. The saudi's know if we quit using oil, we will need something else to run on,and they already have their hands in that to. So again, no problem solved, just moved or changed a bit.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 04,Aug,22 06:11 other posts 
That's 35.1 GWh of electrical energy per year.
That's the electricity need for 2,700 Americans. (or 5,229 Dutch people)
Not a lot, but it's a start. It would be better if they find land that is not close to people's houses. There is enough useless dry land, where nobody lives in the US. It's just a bit more expensive to draw the powerlines to the villages and cities. That's what happens if you leave everything to the free market; they maximize their profits with no concern for people. Power companies don't just turn into charities, just because solar & wind power are cheaper now, FOR THEM. They will make people pay as much as they can get away with. They require regulation too or they will place a wind-turbine in your backyard and make you pay for it. It's you who wants small government....

Shame it was a nuisance to you, but it's not like the oil and natural gas extraction never was a nuisance to anyone. For example, many American households have poisoned tap water because of it.
By phart [Ignore] 04,Aug,22 09:14 other posts 
You know what was really sad, most of the land was in FARM USE before the solar panels. And now that the galvanized piles are drove into the ground, nothing can ever be planted there if the panels were removed. Plus the chemicals-minerals like zinc, are leaching into the ground water, and we are all on wells in this area.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 06,Sep,22 16:25 other posts 
I can find nothing about soil being that contaminated by just having solar farms.
Off course with every industry comes pollution, if you just leave it to companies to do what's right. That's why regulation is necessary. De-regulation is just a scam from companies to make more money and leave others with the damage.

Our solar farms are regulated against heavy metal pollutants.
Translated from Dutch: "Leachable materials such as lead, copper and zinc are avoided in places where they can come into contact with rainwater runoff. This also means that there is no negative effect on (ground) water quality."

But when Republicans defund the EPA, your ground water and drinking water are in danger. But they convinced you the EPA is somehow bad.

And why do you only care for alternative energy?
Michigan tap water is flammable, because of Fracking:
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Do you think it being flammable is the only concern and it's otherwise safe to drink?
By phart [Ignore] 06,Sep,22 17:34 other posts 
I can't say much for that,first I had heard of it.
We are on a well and all the wells around here give water but it is full of sediments and such,and is not "safe" to drink by the standards the government uses.Been that way for the 50+ years I have been here.
Stains plumbing,clogs plumbing.
If you really got into detail,I doubt most "city" water is fit to drink.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 07,Sep,22 13:11 other posts 
Ever heard of Flint's poisoned water supply?

If you only consume information sources that do propaganda for the rich and corporations, you will never be informed about the damage they do to normal Americans. They tell you the EPA is harming you, so you allow them to cut the EPA's funding and cut regulation that is preventing them to skimp on water quality and make bigger profits.

A government like yours should be able to provide clean and safe drinking water to all his citizens. But you think 'government = bad' so you trust companies to do better. You never expect people to do the right thing, so why would you expect it from multiple people, organized as a company, with the obligation by law to do the maximum for their shareholders?

The government doesn't have the obligation by law to make profits for it's owners (at least not yet), they have accountability to the voters they represent (until you destroy that completely).
By #666999 07,Sep,22 15:00
US still the best country in the World, numbnuts?

Sweden is not only saving money by replacing fossil fuel with waste to produce energy; it is generating 100 million USD annually by importing trash and recycling the waste produced by other countries.

If you DON'T leave energy production in the hands of capitalists (who care about pretty much ONLY the bottom line), it's remarkable what investment in infrastructure can do.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 26,Sep,22 04:48 other posts 
People are stoopid.
By CAT [Ignore] 26,Sep,22 10:32 other posts 
You think? 🤣🤣😈
By phart [Ignore] 26,Sep,22 13:44 other posts 
I know transportation is only a part of the picture but I watched yet another video on youtube, this time of the Rivian 800 hp electric pickup and sure it towed 8000 pounds just fine, even went from 0 to 60 in less than 4 seconds with the load .But only made it about a 100 miles before it needed plugging in.
Not practical at this time.
Government should not be ramming this alternative stuff down our throats until it is equal to or surpass's the current line of trucks and cars as far as range of travel per charge or fill up.
By CAT [Ignore] 26,Sep,22 16:20 other posts 
Am I wrong? I don't know of any law that says you have to BUY ONE NOW.
By phart [Ignore] 26,Sep,22 18:21 other posts 
UM< check california, no new gas cars will be sold after 2035. And other states are looking at doing the same. So YEA, you are soon going to be wrong.

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now bear in mind their power grid can't handle the load of air conditioning in the summer months.

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Note the part about electric cars not operating well in cold weather.

By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 12:15 other posts 
Very topical and very polemic!

10,000 years ago the Sahara was a green luxuriant oasis. Today, dust from the Sahara crosses the world and fertilises the Amazon rainforest.

Climate is VERY complicated and it has always changed.

I think we all suspect or 'know' that 'climate change' is in part a bandwagon being used by many for other (possibly nefarious) purposes. But there are unquestionably real issues. More attention should be given (in my opinion) to the acidification of oceans - this is happening and seems almost certainly to be linked to CO2 (but not only CO2). Fuck up the oceans and you fuck up everything. This (very likely) is a serious issue. Sea levels rise a foot or the average temperature is 1 degree warmer - is that really of any importance whatsoever?
By cody8789 [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 12:50 other posts 
Yes, one or two degrees is. Water in the summer time gets warmer but always returns to a cooler temp. I live in an area of the planet where because of the warmer temps, all the coral which supports fish life are dying off. Fish die, then we will starve.
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 13:16 other posts 
Yes. Coral is very sensitive to temperature and acidity. Reproduction of some sea life is hugely affected by really tiny changes in acidity. IMO this really is the real issue and, while sometimes mentionned, it is largely ignored in the wider debate.
By CAT [Ignore] 24,Sep,22 07:29 other posts 
Don't forget that the warmer the water the better for tropical storms to develop and strengthen
Climate scientists know that the earth has been cooler and warmer and the the sea levels have been 130 meters lower and 10 meters higher in the past. That's why it took so long to provide the evidence that the current trends are not natural, but caused by a man-made rise in CO2.

However, it's good to look at the deep past, because then we understand the consequences of previous climate change periods (that were not man-made).
Some of those periods caused mass extinction on earth. Nature has always recovered, although most times completely different. Several times, over 90% of all species died out. Back then, nature was flexible, but now nature is already incredibly weakened by humanity. An extinction event of previous magnitudes has the potential to wipe out all life or just leave the simpler life forms. In any case, the end of humanity.

Just because something is complicated, does not mean we know nothing about it. In 2019 the evidence for climate change has reached the "gold standard" level of certainty.
That means there is more than 99.7% certainty that it's true. Actually, the five-sigma level means there is only a one-in-a-million chance that the findings are just a result of random variations. It will never be 100%, because science doesn't do absolutes.

The rising sea levels are only troubling for the next generations. Our generation only has to worry about increasing droughts, wildfires, floods, hurricanes and tropical diseases migrating to the north (also to the south, but 10-12% people live on the Southern hemisphere).

Climate science also tells us that there is only a short window left to prevent an unstoppable chain-reaction. So you can wait until everyone is convinced, but that probably means that it will be unstoppable then, even if we completely ban all technology. The current renewable energy technology is not intended to destroy our current way of life, it's the last straw we grab to retain our current way of life.

Even if climate change wasn't man-made, it would still be caused by to the current unprecedentedly high levels of CO2. And then the only solution would still be to lower those high levels of CO2. And that would still result in the same solutions, lowering human emissions of CO2 and re-planting trillions of trees or find other ways to absorb CO2 out from the atmosphere and ocean. And it would still cause massive climate catastrophes, of which we have only seen the beginning yet. So, even if it wasn't
man-made, we would still need to stop it, to save humanity or at least human civilization.
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 14:58 other posts 
Always good to see someone well informed. I am not sure we would end up agreeing, but there is certainly the basis for a good discussion - should you wish to have that discussion.

tot ziens
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 16:45 other posts 
Thanks. Sure, I'm always willing to discuss anything.
Do you know some Dutch or did Google help?
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 18:29 other posts 
Brother lives in NL. I visit often and have worked there briefly. So I know a very few words
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 13,Sep,22 09:41 other posts 
OK, nice! Is your brother having a good time in our country?
By phart [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 14:11 other posts 
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By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 14:15 other posts 
Another record broken, of at least 2000 years of known information.
At some point there are no previous records left to break,
other than the records of last year. Which is what we mostly see now.
By cody8789 [Ignore] 24,Sep,22 17:52 other posts 
According to scientific study, it's been proved by the level of the soil that the earth goes into a colder state then a warmer one every twenty thousand years. The study was done looking at the levels of the soil and analysis of how the weather was going back a hundred thousand or more years. This is normal, but emissions from cars and electric plants ect... May speed things up a little.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 25,Sep,22 12:14 other posts 
More than a little. Look at these pictures that I posted in February 2021.

Global temperatures from the last 1700 years.

CO2 concentration from the last 800.000 years.
(Determined from ice core samples form Antarctica)

It still says 406.92 ppm on the picture.
The latest Measurement from August 2022: 419 ppm
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