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Global Warming... What do you Believe?

Discussion Forum on Show It Off

Page #13

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Started by #485312 [Ignore] 15,Dec,20 18:50
Fact or Fiction.... is it really happening???
what do you think contributes to it and what is
being done to stop it?

New Comment       Rating: -1  


Comments:
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 12:15 other posts 
Very topical and very polemic!

10,000 years ago the Sahara was a green luxuriant oasis. Today, dust from the Sahara crosses the world and fertilises the Amazon rainforest.

Climate is VERY complicated and it has always changed.

I think we all suspect or 'know' that 'climate change' is in part a bandwagon being used by many for other (possibly nefarious) purposes. But there are unquestionably real issues. More attention should be given (in my opinion) to the acidification of oceans - this is happening and seems almost certainly to be linked to CO2 (but not only CO2). Fuck up the oceans and you fuck up everything. This (very likely) is a serious issue. Sea levels rise a foot or the average temperature is 1 degree warmer - is that really of any importance whatsoever?
By #275407 12,Sep,22 12:50
Yes, one or two degrees is. Water in the summer time gets warmer but always returns to a cooler temp. I live in an area of the planet where because of the warmer temps, all the coral which supports fish life are dying off. Fish die, then we will starve.
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 13:16 other posts 
Yes. Coral is very sensitive to temperature and acidity. Reproduction of some sea life is hugely affected by really tiny changes in acidity. IMO this really is the real issue and, while sometimes mentionned, it is largely ignored in the wider debate.
By CAT-2 [Ignore] 24,Sep,22 07:29 other posts 
Don't forget that the warmer the water the better for tropical storms to develop and strengthen
Climate scientists know that the earth has been cooler and warmer and the the sea levels have been 130 meters lower and 10 meters higher in the past. That's why it took so long to provide the evidence that the current trends are not natural, but caused by a man-made rise in CO2.

However, it's good to look at the deep past, because then we understand the consequences of previous climate change periods (that were not man-made).
Some of those periods caused mass extinction on earth. Nature has always recovered, although most times completely different. Several times, over 90% of all species died out. Back then, nature was flexible, but now nature is already incredibly weakened by humanity. An extinction event of previous magnitudes has the potential to wipe out all life or just leave the simpler life forms. In any case, the end of humanity.

Just because something is complicated, does not mean we know nothing about it. In 2019 the evidence for climate change has reached the "gold standard" level of certainty.
That means there is more than 99.7% certainty that it's true. Actually, the five-sigma level means there is only a one-in-a-million chance that the findings are just a result of random variations. It will never be 100%, because science doesn't do absolutes.

The rising sea levels are only troubling for the next generations. Our generation only has to worry about increasing droughts, wildfires, floods, hurricanes and tropical diseases migrating to the north (also to the south, but 10-12% people live on the Southern hemisphere).

Climate science also tells us that there is only a short window left to prevent an unstoppable chain-reaction. So you can wait until everyone is convinced, but that probably means that it will be unstoppable then, even if we completely ban all technology. The current renewable energy technology is not intended to destroy our current way of life, it's the last straw we grab to retain our current way of life.

Even if climate change wasn't man-made, it would still be caused by to the current unprecedentedly high levels of CO2. And then the only solution would still be to lower those high levels of CO2. And that would still result in the same solutions, lowering human emissions of CO2 and re-planting trillions of trees or find other ways to absorb CO2 out from the atmosphere and ocean. And it would still cause massive climate catastrophes, of which we have only seen the beginning yet. So, even if it wasn't
man-made, we would still need to stop it, to save humanity or at least human civilization.
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 14:58 other posts 
Always good to see someone well informed. I am not sure we would end up agreeing, but there is certainly the basis for a good discussion - should you wish to have that discussion.

tot ziens
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 16:45 other posts 
Thanks. Sure, I'm always willing to discuss anything.
Do you know some Dutch or did Google help?
By JustANormalGuy [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 18:29 other posts 
Brother lives in NL. I visit often and have worked there briefly. So I know a very few words
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 13,Sep,22 09:41 other posts 
OK, nice! Is your brother having a good time in our country?
By phart [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 14:11 other posts 
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By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 14:15 other posts 
Another record broken, of at least 2000 years of known information.
At some point there are no previous records left to break,
other than the records of last year. Which is what we mostly see now.
By #275407 24,Sep,22 17:52
According to scientific study, it's been proved by the level of the soil that the earth goes into a colder state then a warmer one every twenty thousand years. The study was done looking at the levels of the soil and analysis of how the weather was going back a hundred thousand or more years. This is normal, but emissions from cars and electric plants ect... May speed things up a little.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 25,Sep,22 12:14 other posts 
More than a little. Look at these pictures that I posted in February 2021.

Global temperatures from the last 1700 years.


CO2 concentration from the last 800.000 years.
(Determined from ice core samples form Antarctica)


It still says 406.92 ppm on the picture.
The latest Measurement from August 2022: 419 ppm
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By phart [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 10:33 other posts 
Ok, here is a legit question.
Glaciers are melting, and what did they find? A 2000 year old gravel PATHWAY between the mountains.
Now, how did that happen??
2000 years ago,there was no ice. So where was the water that made that ice 2000 years ago?
Humans typically make paths,so humans walked here. Animals can make trails but not lay rocks in a formation. So , again,how did this happen that we have a gravel path under ice that everyone is afraid it's melting is going to end the earth?
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By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 12,Sep,22 16:30 other posts 
It's not a gravel path made by humans 2000 years ago, it is a 'path' over the glaciers now, that modern people use to get to ski and hike locations. They are not saying that it was ice free 2000 years ago, they are saying that it is the first time in at least 2,000 years that is now free. When it's not possible to determine for longer ago than 2000 years, they say 'in at least 2,000 years'. They do however say 'The Alps' glaciers are now on track for their biggest mass losses in at least 60 years of record-keeping, data showed.'

Do you think that people 2000 years ago were carrying gravel up the mountains? Do you imagine rows of people with donkeys, going up 2800 meters in the alps to lay down a path?
For what? Was it a popular ski resort back then? The population of earth was around 180 million people back then, 1/43 of the population now. They were mostly farmers in little villages. They had no reason to go up 2800 meters up any mountain, whether covered in snow or barren rock. Only bored modern people do that.

By the way, some glaciers are 5,500 years old, some are 10,500 years old and some are 30,000 years old, and they're all melting at a rate than ever before, for so far it's determinable.

2000 Years ago, it was a little colder than the past 2000 year average. Some sites show a graph of the last 2000 years, with a peak at around 1000 AD, the medieval warm period. However, they cut off the last 100 years and stop at 1900, to obfuscate the massive spike of the last 50 years or so.

Here is a nice example of dishonesty:
only registered users can see external links
Why the fuck do they draw a DOTTED LINE, for the most reliable data?
That dotted line starts around 1920 or so and ends before the year 2000, to make it appear that it was warmer 1000 years ago. And this is not even the worst disinformation site out there.
However, they are hiding the fact that we are now up to around +1.2°C and the medieval warm period was at max +0.55°C.
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By phart [Ignore] 07,Sep,22 11:54 other posts 
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To dependent on outsiders for their needs. I think Trump warned them of this about 4 years ago?
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 07,Sep,22 12:44 other posts 
True, Trump warned us against buying natural gas from Russia.
Did he advise us to accelerate the energy transition, so we are no longer
dependent on Russia? Because, I've never heard him say that.

That's the only way to not be dependent on outsiders for our energy needs.


By phart [Ignore] 01,Sep,22 16:54 other posts 
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Electric cars will give us a few more months on earth. Wow.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 05,Sep,22 16:11 other posts 
How many time do I need to explain to you that all transportation is only 24% of the total global CO2 emissions and cars are only 41% of that. You are talking about 10% of the problem. Solving that problem will not save us.

The production of the current electric cars is emitting lots of CO2, because they are making mostly high end cars like Tesla's now. Only when normal people can afford simple, cheap electric cars, will it have any significant impact on climate change.

Climate change can only be solved by the energy transition of companies and houses, reducing emissions from agriculture and turning DEforestation into REforestation.
By phart [Ignore] 05,Sep,22 18:21 other posts 
Reforestation. Ok, I can't disagree BUT do you eat pine cones?
Do you eat acorns?
Some of that forest could be peach tree, apple trees and so on.
Plant more orchards and solve 2 problems instead of just 1.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 06,Sep,22 16:01 other posts 
Off course I'm not talking about turning producing farms to forests.
But there is lots of desert that was forest once, but vanished because of human activity. That empty, useless wasteland can be replanted.
I agree that not all new forests need to be just for animals.
We can use those forests for food and wood, just in a sustainable way.
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Not destroying Canadian forests for a thin layer of tar sand would help.


By phart [Ignore] 05,Sep,22 14:47 other posts 
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solar is the solution?,
Might help some but it seems getting it installed and reliable is a problem.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 05,Sep,22 15:37 other posts 
You should have done that a few years ago, when it was cheaper and the solar panel installation companies could still find employees. When I bought mine, electricity was $0.22/kWh and natural gas was $0.70/m3. Today electricity would cost me $0.89/kWh and natural gas would be $3.94/m3. That's four times the price for electricity and 5.6 times the price for natural gas. No energy provider is giving out contracts at the moment. My contract will end in December, the worst month to sign a new contract. So I probably won't be able to do that and get billed the flexible price, which will probably cut into my savings a lot. Or I will just have to sit in the cold and find another hobby than gaming.

I'm very happy with my solar panels. Just a shame they don't do much in December when my contract ends. However, if the current price keep up, my solar panels will make me $2,330 per year and they will have payed for themselves by June 2023.
But, I think electricity prices will increase even further.

There are no reliability issues. The only thing that isn't reliable is the sun, but the yearly production only differ by at maximum 10%.
By phart [Ignore] 05,Sep,22 18:23 other posts 
I was finally able to afford a 100 watt panel recently.99 dollars. they are normally about 40 bucks higher.
I am hoping to keep a couple batterys charged with it on trailer winches and such.
By CAT-2 [Ignore] 06,Sep,22 10:33 other posts 
Almost every camper that camps in the boonies uses solar panels
By phart [Ignore] 06,Sep,22 10:54 other posts 
that is another reason I bought this 1.
That's a good start. I hope you can make it work for you.


By phart [Ignore] 02,Sep,22 14:57 other posts 
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People giving up the buttons on their thermostats. And now they sweat because the power company can't handle the load.
dummys.
this is why when you do sign up for that,you get a window unit for at least 1 room in the house so you run it off a outlet during the lockout or a generator during a outage.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 05,Sep,22 16:38 other posts 
A very affordable and cost effective investment is sun protection window film. It can keep out almost 100% of the infrared and up to 89% of heat radiation. It will keep your house cool in the summer and warm in the winter. It will reduce energy costs for cooling and heating. I'm requesting quotations at this very moment.

I'm also looking for prices of air conditioning systems. I don't even really need it for cooling, because my rolling shutters helped a lot this summer, but it's the best solution
for electric heating of one room in winter.
By phart [Ignore] 05,Sep,22 18:20 other posts 
Logical and easy to do ,about the same as tinting car windows to keep from burning up in the summer.
By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 06,Sep,22 12:43 other posts 
Glad you approve.

I just received a new contract from my current energy company. They presented me a 'deal' of only $555,52/month. My mortgage is less, even before tax returns.
My house is well insulated, has solar panels and underfloor heating and still this is what I'll be paying. My brother was already paying double of what I was paying, so his bill will be crazy.

Many people will be in trouble. Poor people often live in cheap rental apartments, that don't even have double glazing. If this winter will be a classic winter, people will just freeze to death. There is not enough construction workers to give everyone double glazing before winter, but they could at least send them all that window film.


By phart [Ignore] 31,Aug,22 16:26 other posts 
Sad reality
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By CAT-2 [Ignore] 31,Aug,22 17:00 other posts 
At the moment, maybe. When horse and buggy was the thing, gas stations were not common and people would say cars were a toy for the rich. At the momen hybrid cars are all over the roads and with better batteries, soon, electric vehicles will be useful ( reliability is another thing, just remember the Edsel)


By phart [Ignore] 18,Aug,22 21:05 other posts 
This should distract the greenies for a couple days.
Once this plant starts leaking, all that "hard work" for climate change is going to amount to nothing.
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It will affect not just ukraine,but EUROPE.
Read that anannas. Europe.
By CAT-2 [Ignore] 31,Aug,22 13:21 other posts 
And what if it doesn't? Will you find something else to introduce the Boogeyman to us?
By phart [Ignore] 31,Aug,22 15:16 other posts 
Not at the moment, but you do need to keep a eye out for reality. It might sneak up and git ye.
I hope it don't leak, I hope you can laugh at me for making this theory, But Sadly if it does start leaking it will have almost immediate world wide effects on food supply chains and 1000's of lives and lively hoods of the people in the surrounding area. Global warming or climate change will be the furthest things from their minds. Survival will be.
By CAT-2 [Ignore] 31,Aug,22 16:54 other posts 
The immediate problem is always the one you worry about first, but, let me mention Three Mile Island, Chernobyl, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, that Japanese coastal city I forgot the name. The world continues. High casualties? You bet, but, more people died from black lung disease and leaded gas. Cleaning the environment is something important.


By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 31,Aug,22 11:28 other posts 
Bad news. The world is ending.
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By phart [Ignore] 20,Aug,22 12:51 other posts 
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By Ananas2xLekker [Ignore] 31,Aug,22 11:24 other posts 
I really enjoyed this video.

As soon as I understood that it was Bill Gates, I was anticipating the 'vaccines to reduce the population' argument. I didn't have to wait long. Shall I explain it again?

And off course; "Vaccinate, tag and digitally track each one of you like livestock.."
Why use vaccines for that? You are already wearing your tracking device around,
in your pocket. They either think of you as too dumb to realize that or they are obfuscating what the NSA is doing. What is their motive to do that?

"Not only will my organization enjoy legal immunity and trillions in profits.."
Which is the party of deregulation and tax-cuts for corporations again?

Celebrate with his friend Jeffrey Epstein on his Lol.ita express?
Together with Trump, I presume? With girls recruited by Matt Gaetz.

"Surrender your personal freedom and common sense to our fear merchants in the government and the media"
Wow, exactly what Republicans are doing. Very insightful!


By #275407 18,Aug,22 22:05
Paint the town white, so to speak
By phart [Ignore] 19,Aug,22 11:20 other posts 
reflect the heat away,keep it cool!
By #275407 19,Aug,22 13:00
you got it


By phart [Ignore] 09,Aug,22 20:45 other posts 
When I say something about overregulation affecting people and the economy ,this is a example of how.
For decades desiel engines in trucks were economical. And if you kept the fuel clean, and the oil changed, you could get several 100,000 miles out of them.
Not any more .Now you have to pour chemicals in them to burn out the exhaust. and this is what happens when sensors go bad in the exhaust.
It is much harder and costly to run a diesel now.For no real gain.


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By cocklvr [Ignore] 08,Aug,22 13:58 other posts 
It doesn't matter what anyone "believes", the science is in, that facts are readily available, climate change is happening.
By phart [Ignore] 08,Aug,22 15:14 other posts 
And has been for millennia. And would continue if the human race went extinct in the morning.
By cocklvr [Ignore] 08,Aug,22 15:59 other posts 
You got me there, I should have stated "man made climate change" is happening now and has been accelerating since the industrial revolution.
By phart [Ignore] 08,Aug,22 21:10 other posts 
as my post below indicates,
Nature is working hard to change the climate all on her own.
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By cocklvr [Ignore] 09,Aug,22 11:38 other posts 
Obviously the forces of nature never stop, that isn't the issue. You seem confused as to what the actual issue is so I will try to help you. The issue is that humanity is pushing the climate toward warmer average temperatures through what is known as a greenhouse effect. The urgency is that at some point we will trigger a feedback loop that rapidly (10-50 years) changes the climate irreversibly for generations. The science is available if you do an honest search. You just have to look beyond what the oil companies want you to believe.
By phart [Ignore] 09,Aug,22 12:11 other posts 
I can look beyond the oil company's, you need to look beyond the "scientist" that have fat checking accounts because of funding for their "research".
Carbon Taxation will not clean the air it will only promote poverty. Poverty equals pollution.
By cocklvr [Ignore] 09,Aug,22 13:43 other posts 
I don't think you understand how science works. Studies funded through grants still have to go through independent peer review before being published. Your healthy skepticism has run amok.

The carbon tax does multiple things including create incentives for carbon reduction. Its the old carrot and stick approach that has been used for centuries. The same way companies had to evolve to stop polluting rivers, they will now have to do the same for carbon emissions.


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