quite honestly when they catch suspects they should be torchered what ever it takes to make them reveal secrets. I think the 'authorities' in France are handling the situation well at the moment!

Hmmm...
I was reading through this thread earlier today and was drawn to a number

of points mentioned in different posts and, unusually for me, I found myself

wanting to pick up on a few things from different posts.
Most importantly and along with the other people who feel the same way

here, my heart goes out to the people of France and their loved ones who

are victims of this tragedy, and to all other victims caught up in any acts

of **** and hatred such as this in the world. Both warfare and

terrorism are guilty of unjust heartbreak and grief. Mothers, fathers,

ch!ldren and friends all become victims when they're forced to grieve and

face the rest of their lives unable to give their love to a s0n or d@ughter

they lost due to war or terrorism. It doesn't matter which side of the

fence they stand on, they're innocent in it all!
It worries me to know that so many of us seem to believe they have the

right to judge which people are more or less worthy of life than others

and who's lives are more important than others. Who decides on how that

scale is measured and how can you possibly establish a tipping point where

good becomes evil in that way of thinking?

I don't "belong" to any religion and I don't believe in any form of God(s),

but I don't disregard or disrespect any religious groups or movements and

the followers of them. Although I haven't found faith, I still respect the

rights of those who have (along with adhering to any reasonable codes of

the culture, such as removing my shoes in a mosque or wearing a Yarmulke

in a synagogue, because these things have religious significance and I like

to think that showing some understanding in our differences is healthier

and friendlier than anything else. After all, I've never met a Jewish person

who has a problem with people from other faiths for working on a

Saturday.

JohnS, does my attitude towards things place me in the "Do-gooder or

suchlike" camp in your view so far? I am genuinely interested to know what

you think because I notice you seem to focus a "blaming" kind of view at

Islam for all the current tension in the world at the moment, as well as

hinting at their religious beliefs and maybe even the lives of Muslims being

less important to you on that hypothetical scale I mentioned earlier.
You're out of order saying that kind of thing about Islam. I've known plenty

of Muslims over the years and not ONE of them was comdemning or had

any ill feeling towards other races or religions. Oddly enough, the majority

of other people I've known over the years have been (so-called) Christians

and more than half of them have been anti this or anti that, racists,

sexists.... VERY sad.
I'm very aware of the huge number of others worldwide who would agree

with you. It's understandable and I do actually share some of the same

views myself, but not unreasonably and not with any condemnation of Islam

as a whole because that would mean very unfairly including a ridiculous

number of innocent, respectful and righteous citizens around the world.

Muslims who respect me just as much as I respect them.
THAT is exactly why brought up the examples about shoes in mosques and

Yarmulkes in synagogues. It's the comments and jokes made about the

"little things" like those, or the nicknames disrespectfully given to them by

people not from those faiths that cause the beginnings of religious tensions

in cities everywhere because it's only a matter of time before the jokes

start to become sneaky opportunities for backhanded insults:

("...aww come on, Ranjeet, where's your sense of humour? I only said I

wanted to dry my hands on your Turban 'cause there's no paper towels left

in the toilets, hahaha!").

Have you heard some of the chants sang by supporters at football matches

in the UK? That's a mass of thousands of predominantly white British men

proudly belting out a "humorous" stream of backhanded, racist insults aimed

at one of the players AND the whole thing is also very often broadcasted

on international television. It's amazing how broadcasting guidelines in the

UK ban any programmes containing "bad language" or references to drugs or

alcohol being shown before 9pm, yet they feel it's totally acceptable to

broadcast racist insults?
Sadly, a small number of the supporters in the stadium will be k!ds, caught

up in the excitement and feeling proud to be part of the thousands of adult

role models who are demonstrating how there is nothing wrong with a

little racial stereotyping. The k!ds will join in singing the chant, most of

them probably not understanding the jokes or slurs in the words, but it's

still the beginnings of Britain's next generation of casual racists taking

shape.
Statistically, if you wanted to find an average cross section of the

supporters at that game, calculated how many you would need to select at

random and then asked each of them about their religious backgrounds, I

bet you any amount of money that a small percentage of them would say

they weren't religious, and at least 90% of the rest would answer either

Christian or Church of England, but of course they "claim" to be Christians,

but I'd say the only times pretty much all of them will have been inside a

church was when they were invited to a Christening or wedding.
I don't recall learning about ANY Christian values that say casual racism is

OK.
By the way, JohnS, don't forget that all those years ago when pilgrims

were arriving in the newly conquered lands that they were doing it all in

the name of God. All those natives who were shackled and suddenly the

property of Christians to be treated like shit, beaten, r@ped and killed.

How very Christian is that? I don't recall hearing about any other religion

who believed they had a right to act like that.
Was Hitler a Muslim?

I was brought up by parents who taught me to be respectful. They were

normal, working class people who worked damned hard, scraping by to

raise a family of 4 k!ds, not "hippy types" or "new age liberals". They just

understand the importance of respect and friendship.
I grew up in Liverpool and was a teenager during the 1980s.
England wasn't exactly flourishing at the time. It's economy wasn't healthy

and unemployment was at it's worst since before the Second World War,

so any towns and cities with large populations had an air of tension about

them, especially amongst the younger adults frustrated because they were

unable to find work after leaving scho0l.
If you were a young black guy in Liverpool, your job prospects were even

more bleak due to the institutional racism that clouded workplaces, so

unemployment within the black community was significantly higher than

anywhere else in the city, the same pattern showing in other towns and

cities with established black communities.
There was a history of tension between the black community and

Merseyside Police that was growing too. Young black men were frequently

stopped and searched by police without any justified reasons, and the

police had a reputation for being "heavy-handed" in their approach, so a

whole community of people had now become understandably more

alienated and distrusting of the police ****, who's vocation was actually

supposed to be protecting of them.
In July that year, a young black guy was stopped by police and arrested,

but the police used their heavy-handed approach, physically going beyond

their needs which forced the guy into needing to protect himself, but the

police continued being unnecessarily brutal with him. The arrest was

witnessed by a nearby group of black guys and so the built up tension and

frustration created by the actions of the police leading up to then reached

it's tipping point with fighting between the police and the black guys

kicking off as the the group came to his defense.
This was the start of 9 days of rioting in Toxteth, and it was down to the

actions of the police, but it wasn't a blatant action. It was an undercurrent

of racial abuse over years causing a community of people to feel like they

were "2nd class citizens".
The disrespect of religious and cultural differences over years and years in

seemingly insignificant forms such as jokes, football chants or

heavy-handed policing will only result in those at the receiving end of the

abuse considering themselves as 2nd class citizens because they're a

minority up against the majority. That majority must already consider the

others to be 2nd class citizens if they believe it's acceptable to disrespect

them for their religions or their skin colour!
If the shoe was on the other foot and white Christians had been subjected

to life as 2nd class citizens instead, what would you say then?

Now, having just read back through what I've written so far, I'm suddenly

finding myself worried that anyone who reads this post will think I'm trying

to justify the actions of terrorism or that I might somehow support their

causes. Believe me, ANY groups or individuals who carry out acts of

terrorism disgust me beyond words. I've used the word "respect" a lot

throughout this text. If someone were to ask us what our definition of

"respect" is, we'd all come up with slight variations of the same things

depending our upbringings and how we each learned how to show it, how

to earn it and, most importantly, the reasons why respect is given and

earned.

The resulting losses from EVERY act of terrorism are always the innocent

lives of people who were no threat to, had no political agenda against or

no weapons aimed at the groups responsible.
All the sorrow, pain and grief caused by war and terrorism is easily more

than enough heartbreak for me, but war is all about defending, protecting

or liberating and (hopefully) innocent civilians are never the intended

targets, are they?
Terrorism is essentially an aimless vehicle for showing, inciting and

spreading nothing but hatred.
What kind of mindset is someone in when they can rationalize and justify

whatever role they play in an act of terrorism? Of course, we don't know

how many of these people out there, but the laws of probability would

estimate at least 50% of them will be a parent, and I can't believe that any

one of those people wouldn't have an image of their own ch!ld or ch!ldren

flash through their mind at some point and not move them emotionally as

they're thinking about the affect of the terrorism they're part of. Worse

still, what about any terrorists who could willingly sacrifice their beautiful

son or daughter as a human bomb? That really is something I can't begin to

want to understand.

Sadly, a majority of today's terrorist groups will latch themselves on to a

true religion as a fundamentalist faction. As a consequence, the millions of

innocent people who belong to the true faith and denounce these factions,

particularly those living in the western world, are vilified and suddenly

become 2nd class citizens. Undercurrents of racial and religious tension

causes the new generations of people from those communities to localize

for the safety they feel in their numbers, but then that becomes

"suspicious activity" and, before you know it, the tipping point is reached

and **** is all that's left. The police arrive at the scene and head

straight for the 2nd class citizens first because the police assume they'd be

the attackers "because it was their lot who did the Twin Towers, innit!".

It's the sweeping statements and false information about races of people

and different religions in our countries that get thrown around after

something tragic and horrible like the attacks in France last week.
The more we continue to think it's OK to treat some races and regilons as

2nd class, the more we'll ALL be rersponsible for pushing those citizens

into the arms of terrorism because they feel no sense of belonging with us,

but more with the "promises" and "ideals" whispered into their ears by the

recruiters of those bastards.

I can't condone ****, but I do understand the evil necessity of it and I

HAVE to accept it. It doesn't matter which side of the fence you stand, it

will never truly conclude with the aim it set out to achieve - "peace". So

much is lost on so many levels.
I respect everyone and the points of view they've shared on this page so

far.
JohnS, even though you might think I was being a smart-arse with you

before, I honestly wasn't. I really do want to know what you mean by a

"Do-gooder" because the name suggests to me that it's a person or

organisation aiming to resolve a conflict that's claiming the lives of

innocent people. If that's roughly what you meant then they sound like

decent people to me, but only if their agenda is unbiased and transparent.
Countryboy54, I respect you and have so much admiration for you. It

saddened me when I read your words, "I feel inferioir, I failed...".
You did not and you have no reason to apologize for ANYTHING!
You could have so easily become a very different person after seeing and

having to do some of the things you did as a soldier for your country. You

could have turned into a complete monster and lost a lot of respect for the

sanctity of ANY life, but you haven't. You still show compassion for the

lives of innocents and **** the idea of having to hurt them.

I'm not saying we need to open our arms and show love to these people.

They're not the kind of people who understand what that kind of offer

should mean to them.
I do think we all need to think a little more before we add to a continuing

spread of disinformation about a lot of people regardless of which race or

religion they are.
We're not all right and we don't all have the answers... which is why we

become frustrated and spout incorrect words instead.

If you feel your beliefs are THE beliefs that everybody should share with

you, you need to be sure the reasons behind them are faultless, and I am

certain that NONE of us can hand on heart say that we can do this. If you

do think you can, back it up intelligently instead of just thowing your

words out there because the more that kind of things goes on, the more

ammunition you give to hatred, more people will continue to become

alienated and resort to terrorism and I for one **** the prospect of my

baby neices and nephews growing up to be surrounded by people who are

prepared to fill their heads with crap that could cause them to unfairly

condemn anyone.

Proud to see the French Foreign Minister stand to protect the people of France and order the Air Strikes on Raqqa. His response..... "We cannot allow ISIS to act without reacting".

I wish the powers that be would stop any Muslims emigrating to a western and/or Christian country. Let the fuckers kill each other till they've sorted their bloody mess out

Couldn't agree more country boy, it's time to put PC on the back burner and take care of these folks

The French have received the results of their inactivity of the past in not restricting the Muslims and now are seeing the next stage in a Muslim take-over. It is a form of colonization.

This will happen in the future in other European countries who also have large growing Muslim populations, it could also happen in Germany with the current influx of “refugees” and even in the UK and the US..

They were not vigilant and are now reaping the results.