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Started by #601496 [Ignore] at 07,Jan,20 17:42
The elections are coming (Nov. 3, 2020). By the tittle you'll guess whom i WONT vote for, but that got me thinking. Who would I vote for? And why? That gave me an idea. Why not ask whom you'll vote for and why? You can come back and change your choice as many times as you like. Republicans can substitute some other Republican for Trump. Hopefully he will be gone forever by that time. It would be nice if you identify your political party (Ex: I'm R or I'm D) Lets see who gets it right on Nov 4.

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By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 12,Mar,20 13:23 other posts 
The Worst Outcome
If somebody other than Donald Trump were in the White House, the coronavirus crisis would not be unfolding this way.

MARCH 11, 2020
President Donald Trump
At every turn, President Trump’s policy regarding coronavirus has unfolded as if guided by one rule: How can I make this crisis worse?

Presidents are not all-powerful, especially not in the case of pandemic disease. There are limits to what they can do, for good or ill. But within those limits, at every juncture, Trump’s actions have ensured the worst possible outcomes. The worst outcome for public health. The worst outcome for the American economy. The worst outcome for American global leadership.

Read: Trump’s dangerously effective coronavirus propaganda

Trump’s Oval Office speech of March 11 was the worst action yet in a string of bad actions.

Here are the things the president did not do in that speech.

He offered no guidance or policy on how to prevent the spread of the disease inside the United States. Should your town cancel its St. Patrick’s Day parade? What about theatrical productions and sporting events? Classes at schools and colleges? Nothing.

He offered no explanation of what went wrong with the U.S. testing system, nor any assurance of when testing would become more widely available. His own previous promises of testing for anyone who needs it have been exploded as false. So what is true? Nothing.

Layoffs are coming, probably on a very large scale, as travel collapses and people hunker down at home. Any word for those about to lose their jobs? Only the vaguest indication that something might be announced sometime soon.

It’s good to hear that there will be no co-pays on the tests nobody seems able to get. What about other health-care coverage? Any word on that? Nothing.

The financial markets have plunged into a 2008-style crash, auguring a recession, perhaps a severe one. The Trump administration has had almost two months to think about this crisis. It has trial-ballooned some ideas. But, of course, fiscal policy would require assent from the House of Representatives. Trump is still pouting at Speaker Nancy Pelosi. So—aside from some preposterously unconvincing happy talk about the economy—again: nothing.


The Best Thing Bernie Sanders Can Do Is Drop Out

Donald Trump
Trump Is Counting on the Supreme Court to Save Him

Bernie Sanders
How Democrats Can Solve Their Bernie Sanders Problem

Bernie Sanders
The Price of a Sanders Nomination

Conor Friedersdorf: You will adjust to the new normal

There was one something in the speech: a ban on travel from Europe, but not the United Kingdom. It’s a classic Trump formulation. It seeks to protect America by erecting a wall against the world, without thinking very hard how or whether the wall can work. The disease is already here. The numbers only look low because of our prior failure to provide adequate testing. They will not look low even four days from now. And those infected with the virus can travel from other countries and on other routes. Trump himself has already met some.

The travel ban is an act of panic. Financial futures began crashing even as Trump was talking, perhaps shocked by his lack of an economic plan, perhaps aghast at his latest attack on world trade. (The speech seemed to suggest an embargo on European-sourced cargo as well, but that looks more like a mental lapse of Trump’s than a real policy announcement. The ban on cargo was retracted by a post-speech tweet, although the ban remains in the posted transcript of the speech.) Among other things, the ban represents one more refutation by Trump of any idea of collective security against collective threats. While China offers medical assistance to Italy, he wants to sever ties to former friends—isolating America and abandoning the world.

This crisis is not of Trump’s making. What he is responsible for is his failure to respond promptly, and then his perverse and counterproductive choice of how to respond when action could be avoided no longer. Trump, in his speech, pleaded for an end to finger-pointing. It’s a strange thing for this president of all presidents to say. No American president, and precious few American politicians, have ever pointed so many fingers or hurled so much abuse as Donald Trump. What he means, of course, is: Don’t hold me to account for the things I did.

But he did do them, and he owns responsibility for those things. He cannot escape it, and he will not escape it.

More people will get sick because of his presidency than if somebody else were in charge. More people will suffer the financial hardship of sickness because of his presidency than if somebody else were in charge. The medical crisis will arrive faster and last longer than if somebody else were in charge. So, too, the economic crisis. More people will lose their jobs than if somebody else were in charge. More businesses will be pushed into bankruptcy than if somebody else were in charge. More savers will lose more savings than if somebody else were in charge. The damage to America’s global leadership will be greater than if somebody else were in charge.

Meghan O’Rourke: The shift Americans must make to fight the coronavirus

There is always something malign in Trump’s incompetence. He has no care or concern for others; he cannot absorb the trouble and suffering of others as real. He monotones his way through words of love and compassion, but those words plainly have no content or meaning for him. The only thing that is real is his squalid vanity. This virus threatens to pierce that vanity, so he denied it as long as he could. What he refuses to acknowledge cannot be real, can it?

And even now that he has acknowledged the crisis, he still cannot act, because he does not know what to do. His only goal now is to shove blame onto others. Americans have to face the fact that in the grip of this pandemic, the Oval Office is for all practical purposes as empty as the glazed eyes of the man who spoke from that office tonight.
--------------------------------------- added after 5 minutes

By phart [Ignore] at 12,Mar,20 13:47 other posts 
It is the job of local and state governments to decide what to close and leave open.He said so today.
I haven't heard any blame onto others lately from Trump
He did say this morning to the media that the deal Dems are pushing has some goodies in it not related to the virus is the reason he is not for it.
Shame they would try to squeeze in something. Should be a bare bones, address the issues at hand deal.
Trump is no saint. Anyone in that office would be stared at and badmouthed about something.
I don't think Trump wants us dead
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 12,Mar,20 18:20 other posts 
He doesn’t know what he says. This man is the most ignorant man we’ve had as president. It’s not that he wants us dead. It’s that he doesn’t care. It’s only “Me Me Me”
By phart [Ignore] at 12,Mar,20 19:15 other posts 
Well I have to question some of the peoples inteligence.I had the Fox on the satilite radio today and people were bitching because Trump called it a Foreign virus last night.What the hell else is it? It came from China.
When you have to dig that deep to find something to talk shit about,it erases other crap ye say.NOT You in this discussion ,I am talking about the critics.

The sad thing is,I am afraid I our Prez may have been set up to be exsposed to the virus.THat brazilian tested positive that was hovering all around Trump over the weekend. Sadly the dems would be dancing in the streets if he died from it instead of being angry about our President dieing.

By AussieMan187 [Ignore] at 05,Mar,20 00:16 other posts 
Trump is going to be grabbing pussy & assassinating more generals for another four years, motherfuckers. Get used to it
By phart [Ignore] at 05,Mar,20 14:33 other posts 
By AussieMan187 [Ignore] at 05,Mar,20 19:25 other posts 

This emoji looks like Donald Trump with a beer

By phart [Ignore] at 03,Mar,20 19:49 other posts 
How do you Trump haters feel about this?
only registered users can see external links
Frankly,She should be under the jail for threatening people.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 03,Mar,20 21:13 other posts 
She's an idiot. She should be locked up. Republicans don't have a monopoly on crazies
By phart [Ignore] at 04,Mar,20 09:50 other posts 
Well I'll be darn! You and I agree on something!
I think regardless of political views,to blantantly threaten others with a virus that could kill,should be treated as a crime.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 04,Mar,20 09:54 other posts 
Don’t they do that with HIV people that don’t warn partners? That lady should be in the looney bin
By phart [Ignore] at 04,Mar,20 09:55 other posts 
Not in california,it is no longer a crime there.I had to google it to believe it.
Apparently not in her state either.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 04,Mar,20 10:26 other posts 
That is unbelievable. You and I disagree about politics and guns (although I would be very happy to share a few Buds with you at the local pub) but, this is criminal. This is not acceptable. Sometimes, I think the legislators are all nuts.
By phart [Ignore] at 04,Mar,20 15:04 other posts 
Sweet tea or Mountain dew for me, no alcohol.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 04,Mar,20 17:38 other posts 
By AussieMan187 [Ignore] at 05,Mar,20 00:14 other posts 
Ugh, a communist. Kill it with fire!

By leopoldij [Ignore] at 03,Mar,20 18:19 other posts 
The next president of the United States is going to be

only registered users can see external links
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 03,Mar,20 21:14 other posts 
If it was Homer against Trumpo I'd vote for Homer
By leopoldij [Ignore] at 03,Mar,20 21:18 other posts 
That's obvious.

By phart [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 08:40 other posts 
Well Considering that Trump and his arch enemy Two Warm are both in Florida,it is now confirmed 2 cases of Corona virus have been found at Sarasota hospital. So both Trump and Two Warm need to be careful and not be getting sick.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 12:05 other posts 
By CountryCouple54 [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 13:00 other posts 
And there is one confirmed case at Baptist Kendall.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 15:13 other posts 
By CountryCouple54 [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 15:15 other posts 
For real. Actually it's was at South Miami not Kendall.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 15:20 other posts 
I need a longer vacation.
By phart [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 17:21 other posts 
All bullshit aside,be careful and don't none of ye be getting sick with that shit.
There was a supposed case 2 hours from me a week or 2 ago but it has disappeared off the radar. Alot of info that was on the web 2 days ago,is not avaliable anymore.There is reason for concern.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 03,Mar,20 16:03 other posts 
The government, under Secret Trumpo's orders, is disappearing most victims of this plague. Too many to do all. There's been over 35K dead and buried at sea.

By CountryCouple54 [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 13:11 other posts 
I don't give a flying shit about politics or the damn puppet sitting in office. This is just an opinion from hard working, blue collar, ex- Marine. These fuckers are all dirty, and use this president position to further the own companies and business ventures. For fucks sake look at the Bush's. None of these jackoffs are the answer. But there's a lot of people in this country just like me. Call us white trash, call us hillbillies, rednecks, country fucks, call us whatever you want. But when all these Democrats like Bloomberg preach about taking our guns away. Good luck mother fuckers. You just dug your own grave with half the US population.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 15:31 other posts 
I call you decent, hard working Americans. We differ in just one major thing, gun ownership. I hate Trump, but if that's your choice, it's your right. But guns are my right too. I don't think you are a bad person for wanting to own a gun. I think a gun is too big a temptation to maim and kill. You said half of the population would not like it. That leaves the other half not liking your choice.
By phart [Ignore] at 02,Mar,20 17:19 other posts 
Find a honest politicain and he will be riding a Unicorn with the Tooth fairy riding shot gun.
I can not fathom our countrys condition right now had Trump not got in office.
You can bet your guns would be threatened much more than they are now.
I don't own but a couple older guns that are not worth stealing. But I'll be damned if some sumbitch is going to take them away!

By SrCums [Ignore] at 11,Feb,20 10:16 other posts 

With that said who is the best candidate that will maintain this constitutional requirement? Sanders is a socialist and the rest of the challengers want to take your guns away, no more free speech with open borders..Raise Taxes and murder babies AFTER they are born.. ITs called BREAKING THE LAW!

There is only one person that will abide by our constitutional law to the best of his ability.. Guess Who It is?
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 11,Feb,20 10:40 other posts 
(I promise not to make illegal deals with foreign powers to investigate rivals in the 2020 elections..........AGAIN)

Since when is socialism a dirty word? This country is full of socialistic laws (Social Security, unemployment insurance, minimum wage, food stamps, disability insurance, Obama-care, public hospitals, forty hour work week, etc)
Taking your guns away (really, really difficult) would be a Constitutional thing and a choice of the people, not just one person running for the presidency. You do know about that other document that is older than the Pledge of Aliegence? It starts like this,

"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

That's "WE, THE PEOPLE". Something you right wingers seem to forget. Only your view is right. The other part of the country got it wrong.

Raise Taxes and murder babies AFTER they are born. Tell me when has a born baby been murdered except by lunatic parents and stray bullets?

Breaking the law is what this current president, this jerk and laughing stock of the world, did. Probably will do again.
By SrCums [Ignore] at 11,Feb,20 22:29 other posts 
Not a dirty word.... Its a failed word.. Name one country in any era with a socialist regime that has succeeded other than poverty and collapse?...

The president is aquitted therefore he is innocent.. No evidence is presented other than your hopes of fantasy.. There is no evidence to support him doing this other than the democrats word which has lied and continuting to lie throughout history. They know they can't compete with the truth so they lie and point fingers.. Turns out they cheated in the election but STILL LOST... People voted for trump becuase he was the best candidate,, not because ome russian KGB agent or agency forced people to vote through mind bending tricks..
Actually it is the Left is the laughing stocks.. and you are enhancing... Look at you..You're their little bending over bitch...
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 11,Feb,20 23:12 other posts 
Sweeden, Norway but what does that prove? You think if Sanders gets elected congress will retire? Getting aquited in a crooked court of law does not exonarate you. Tell me, why are you and your fellow Republicans stll so interested in his election if he won? And if anyone cheated (you know, like paying a porn queen to stay silent) why hasn't there been any prosecutions? If I bend over for a good fuck, it's because I like it and want it. But neither you, Trumpo, or anyone like you will ever get to try it out. I rather fuck a gorilla.Ah, baby, as always, shit cums out of your mouth and when you can't deliver, you start with the insults.
By SrCums [Ignore] at 11,Feb,20 23:31 other posts 
sweeded, norway woman are raped by islamic ganges.... You forgot cuba USSR. venezuella as well as the eastern europe states that collapsed during the 1989 revolution were they had to let them go..If any form of freedom is taken away and removed it is becaue govern has control over the people meaning they can screw you anytime they want.. The never talk about ecucation--NEVER.. Never giving black in inner cities incentive to be somthing of themselves, raise taxes and take away our 2nd amendments....
The reason he gives us the inspiration and love required to be americans, perhaps for the first time since the kennedy assassination and coup by democrats.West Virginia still has jobs, ohil, PA MI, Wi are in a better position since 2001 from the 8-11 attack.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 12,Feb,20 07:00 other posts 
SrCums, you amaze me. I have traded points of view with many members. You are in a class of your own. Please excuse me if I don't respond. I'm speechless and, baby, for me that is monumental. You must be fun living with.
--------------------------------------- added after 106 minutes

BTW, That 5th of scotch must have gone down smooth.
By SrCums [Ignore] at 12,Feb,20 10:09 other posts 
My point of bending over was not a direct attack at you. It is only just to give a visual of what is not only happening to you but to our nation as well being divided into hate so that while you are busy hating each other they are stealing right from under your eyes. This is called "Bend over Bitch". Here is a good equations to follow to have a better visual.
Democrats and false or rhino "republicans" is MIGHT MAKES RIGHT
Conservatives(not neccessarily Republican) is Right makes Might...
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 12,Feb,20 10:24 other posts 
So you say
By SrCums [Ignore] at 01,Mar,20 13:42 other posts 
I say this too..
By SrCums [Ignore] at 11,Feb,20 23:32 other posts 
It was not a crooked court.. Trump was declined costitution right in the congress and because of this show bias of the trial..
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 12,Feb,20 07:04 other posts 
What constitutional right was Trump declined (as you put it)? Explain with examples
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 13,Feb,20 23:11 other posts 
Sweden and Norway are not socialist. They are capitalist just like USA. They just have a higher tax rate and no military. You want to try again on a successful socialist country ? Or do you want pay more taxes and give up the military.
By mr_blue [Ignore] at 14,Feb,20 06:45 other posts 
Pretty sure both Sweden and Norway have military, pretty sure Norway had a big role in ww2 and were founding members of NATO....and still has conscription....
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 14,Feb,20 07:08 other posts 
Strictly speaking, you are right. But let me show you this from a site that is very anti-Sanders Democratic Socialism.

During the 1990s, the Nordic countries shifted from Socialism Mach 5 (an open, free and competitive economy with very high marginal tax rates) to something between Socialism Mach 6 and Socialism Mach 7. While the details differ from one to another country, marginal tax rates were reduced to moderate levels, and various aspects of social insurances and social services were privatized. For example, parents could choose between government and nongovernment schools, and hospitals contracted-out many services. The reason for the shift was the relative stagnation that beset the Nordic countries. While the United States once enjoyed a standard of living only 70 percent of Sweden’s; by the 1990s, Sweden enjoyed a standard of living only 70 percent of the United States.

According to the latest edition of Economic Freedom in the World, Norway is the #25 country in the world and Sweden #43, out of 162; with the United States #6, and Singapore and Hong Kong first and second.

Germany describes its amalgam of free-markets and social insurance as the “social market.” Chile, with its privatization of Social Security, could be said to have moved completely to Mach 1 capitalism. The United States, somewhat uniquely among capitalist countries, practices extensive credit-socialism, and has a national government as well as many home-owners and students deeply in debt. There are positive and negative things to say about many real-world capitalist countries; but nobody - not even Ocasio-Cortez - wants to be associated with real-world socialist countries.

Clifford Thies
Clifford F. Thies is the Eldon R. Lindsay Professor of Economics and Finance at Shenandoah University. He received his Ph.D. in economics from Boston College.
Full Bio

The point is that those nordic countries, at one time, had a very strong socialistic system. They did some changes to be more equal to our capitalistic system.
Their system is best described as compassionate capitalism.
The Nordic countries practice mostly free market economics paired with high taxes exchanged for generous government entitlement programs.
First, it is worth noting that the Nordic counties were economic successes before they built their welfare states. Those productive economies, generating good incomes for their workers, allowed the governments to raise the tax revenue needed to pay for the social benefits. It was not the government benefits that created wealth, but wealth that allowed the luxury of such generous government programs.

In other words, they had very generous programs to help their citizens, and that's what Sanders and other "Democratic Socialism" proponents want. To you and people with your mind-set, you automatically think Venezuela, Cuba, and such. No one wants that.
What I want is a successful economy with safety programs for the less fortunate or poorer citizens. You can have a super-powerful military without the huge expenses of Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Iran, or N Korea.
This should make you happy. This makes your point........ kinda.

America’s is a mixed economy and so are Scandinavian countries’. It is the mixture that differs.

As someone who grew up under socialism and is still, barely, in his 30s, I hope to relate a few ideas to the young people who are “feeling the Bern.” First, Sanders is not a socialist, but a social democrat. Second, the United States does not have a strictly capitalist economy, but a mixed one. As such, it combines a high level of private ownership of capital and the means of production with relatively onerous regulation and taxation. Third, to the extent that what anti‐​capitalist Sanders supporters really want is a Scandinavian‐​style social democracy, with its high level of wealth redistribution and income equality, they should consider that even some of the most socially democratic countries on earth are, in one crucial way, more capitalist than the United States.

The idea, Petro, is what's best for our people.
--------------------------------------- added after 23 minutes

And Mr Blue is right. Both, Norway and Sweden have a military with both also having an Army Reserve.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 14,Feb,20 13:34 other posts 
We spend more money, almost crazy money on our military. Because we want that benefit. People want to know were the free heath care money is going that other countries have. We spend it on the military. We spend money on lot of other things. We have FEMA every summer just about another hurricane will hit and people living along the beach area will get flooded out and we will spend more money trying to help them and most of that money is probably wasted. Look at Puerto Rico. The found wearhouses full of hurricane relief supplies rotten and all wasted. How about illegal people in the US. They generally take the low paying job they may or may not pay taxes. If they have kids we have pay for their education. They don't have a high number of illegals in Norway and Sweden that I hear about.

Look at how we spend our money in US vs Norway or Sweden. We have bigger house. So we probably spend a bigger percentage of our income on homes. They have smaller home because it more expensive so they can only afford a much smaller place. Because they spend more money on taxes I would say.

In the US everyones has a car because you need one to get around and go to work. We have spend our money and buy a car. So we can't spend that money on taxes to pay for national heath care. Their are probably so many little different thing that people are not thinking about or don't know because we don't live in Norway. They have great vacation times off. They get like 30 day off every year. That normal to them we work 70 hours a week take very little time off.

We would have live the whole Norway life style to have the same benefits or cut spending like the biggest one is our military. Who want to cut the military to same size as Norway ? That's no aircraft carriers and stealth bombers, probably no drones and probably no nuclear submarines.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 14,Feb,20 18:37 other posts 
Petro, if you look at this chart/website, you'll see that Norway spends more on everything.

only registered users can see external links

As far as the insane amount of money we spend on the military, I don't believe we have to. If we stop these non-ending wars, we could still have the same military but with much less cost. One to one Norway is pretty identical to the US including transportation (cars), housing, energy. The point is that they have better safety nets than the US.
You keep saying, "we have these costs so we can't get into more debt. I think that's false. It's backwards. If we have to spend more to help our people, then, by all means, spend less on military, encourage families to be more frugal. Stop crazy projects like building a useless wall on our southern border. Limit presidential campaigns to 6 months duration and only special public money be used to finance it. All candidates have the same amount.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 14,Feb,20 20:37 other posts 
Everyones should look at the list of prices for everything. I don't think people want or could even afford to live like that. A car it basically double the US price. Stuff like soda and cigarettes they tax crazy because it a direct cost to cover for Heath insurance.

Maybe other people will comment. I don't think people want to pay that much money to have a system like Norway. It would require a big change to your average American. Let's see who get elected as the next president and see if Americans like the idea.
By pnpspunstimd!k [Ignore] at 01,Mar,20 12:42 other posts 
He fucking admitted it himself! WTF more "evidence" do you need!?!?!
By SrCums [Ignore] at 11,Feb,20 23:35 other posts 
I'm NOT a right winger.. I'm a moderate. There is no such thing as a right wing that support the president. they are hired to pretend to be right but are left in term..

So if you look at it the dems are lying that a right wing exists. in the middle of the bird is the truth and pure morality.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 12,Feb,20 07:06 other posts 
Right winger? I said fucking swinger. I know your dick is "moderate"
By SrCums [Ignore] at 01,Mar,20 13:41 other posts 
Hotpussy, 2warmtts, asshole, fucking bitch or any other name you use Trump will win in 2020.
You're so fucking dumb I can't believe it. You change your name because nobody even likes you here.. The country is being dragged into the mud from people like you.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 01,Mar,20 16:57 other posts 
People like me? More than half of the electorate feel like me. It's people like you that is ruining this country. People don't like me? You have a grand total of 2 friends and 17 people that have blocked you. I have this account since Feb 2 and already have 56 friends. Who's the asshole, dumb, fucking BITCH? Trump may or may not be reelected, but, either way you are a dirty little,,ah, BITCH for life. I consider it an honor not being liked by you.
So believe this: this dumb blonde believes the world would come out the winner if you would stop using oxygen.
By SrCums [Ignore] at 01,Mar,20 23:12 other posts 

Nobody likes you here.. Beat it..
By uncut1944 [Ignore] at 12,Feb,20 09:47 other posts 
Trump has broken ever law under the Constitution, he’s trying to take away pre-existing condition. Taking money from Medicare and Social Security, He loves autocrats and has slapped the leaders of the free world in the face. He accepts no blame but blames others. Hitler rounded up the Jews and Trump is rounding up anyone who does look like himself. Be careful of what you wish for Alice.
By ANGEL1227 [Ignore] at 12,Feb,20 10:23 other posts 

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