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NOT TRUMP............NOT EVER TRUMP

Discussion Forum on Show It Off

Page #1

Pages:  #1   #2  

Started by #601496 [Ignore] at 07,Jan,20 17:42
The elections are coming (Nov. 3, 2020). By the tittle you'll guess whom i WONT vote for, but that got me thinking. Who would I vote for? And why? That gave me an idea. Why not ask whom you'll vote for and why? You can come back and change your choice as many times as you like. Republicans can substitute some other Republican for Trump. Hopefully he will be gone forever by that time. It would be nice if you identify your political party (Ex: I'm R or I'm D) Lets see who gets it right on Nov 4.

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Comments:
By licksipsuckit [Ignore] at 27,Jan,20 04:11 other posts 
only registered users can see external links
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only registered users can see external links
Putins gun ready for a holster *lix*
By Jamie [Ignore] at 27,Jan,20 04:27 other posts 
By licksipsuckit [Ignore] at 27,Jan,20 04:54 other posts 
only registered users can see external links
and you to can become a president *lix*
By Jamie [Ignore] at 27,Jan,20 05:16 other posts 


By licksipsuckit [Ignore] at 27,Jan,20 04:55 other posts 
only registered users can see external links


By SrCums [Ignore] at 23,Jan,20 10:03 other posts 
Did I forget to mention BJUK is a fake made by Hillary Clinton to spy on us Trump Lovers?.. He hates me because I love Trump and he's not even from this country.


By Petro635 [Ignore] at 22,Jan,20 22:02 other posts 
If they don't remove Trump from office this time, will all the Trump haters stop ? Or will you come up with another fake story ?
By phart [Ignore] at 23,Jan,20 08:43 other posts 
The Trump haters are meantaly unstable creatures.I fear a riot of huge proportions if they fail as they have no idea of how to move forward.Violence,mayhiem and confusion are the fuels to their fires.


By phart [Ignore] at 19,Jan,20 20:33 other posts 
only registered users can see external links


By #601496 at 19,Jan,20 11:40
I'm listening to all the Democrats running for president. Every day I hear something good from one of them. It looks like the chief factor to elect one to be the standard bearer of the party will be if he/she can beat Trump. Because he's middle of the road and without socialist baggage I'm leaning towards Joe Biden. In any other election I would go for Sanders, Warren or Buttigieg. This time we can't afford to shun even one vote. Joe, you've got my vote......I think.


By #601496 at 19,Jan,20 11:28
THE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL ISN'T THE ONLY LEGAL PROBLEM TRUMP FACES. MANY QUESTIONS LOOM ABOUT HIS FINANCES

only registered users can see external links

What has this country done to suffer this joke of a president?


By #601496 at 15,Jan,20 10:40
Trump est un criminel suceur de bite
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...


By Poolz [Ignore] at 13,Jan,20 09:36 other posts 
Bad news for those who don't like Trump is that Nigel Farage leaving UK to go and work on Trump 2020 campaign. Nigel singles handed got BREXIT done for UK and played a big party in Conservatives getting a landslide victory in 2019 election.
By #601496 at 13,Jan,20 11:09
That ok. We are getting Rowan Atkinson,,
By Poolz [Ignore] at 14,Jan,20 08:20 other posts 
Unfortunately for you lot Rowan hates the left and it's efforts to end free speech and has publicly supported Boris Johnson.
By #601496 at 14,Jan,20 12:17
But funny
By Scorps [Ignore] at 13,Jan,20 19:31 other posts 
Although I haven't heard of this, we will welcome him to the cause. That being said, it's gonna be a landslide victory regardless as the stupids have shown their true colors. Yeah, let's give the entire world free healthcare and education from K to infinity. Un huh, that's the ticket to a big fat loss!
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I won't mention trying to disarm law abiding citizens, putting 200,000+ people working for the power industry out of work, leagalizing infanticide, reparations, and getting rid of automobiles, airplanes, trains, and planes to name a few.
By phart [Ignore] at 13,Jan,20 20:00 other posts 
Don't think it will be a landslide,it will be a snugger race than we want it to be as the libtards apparently aren't aborting all their spawn. And the cemetarys are vacant on election day as the walking dead go vote.

You know it is a sad,sick world when a admitted communist has a good chance of running as a democrat in 2020 USA.
A communist.Not just a liberal.
A true enemy of the state would be leading it if the libtards had their way.
By #601496 at 13,Jan,20 20:16
Between you and Phart, Trumpo is in like Flynn. If he wins, he wins. Obviously I would hate having Trumpo for 4 more years. Who knows, maybe heíll declare martial law and name himself ďEl SupremoĒ for life. You guys deserve that.
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BTW, Phart, in our country, even a communist has the right to run for office and remember, if he wins, the voters put him there.
By phart [Ignore] at 14,Jan,20 08:50 other posts 
Like I said,it is a sick world when a communist can run for office in the US. Makes you wonder why so many folks hate it and want to be under the thumb of big government like Russia was for so long..Why ruin America? If you want to live in a communist country,MOVE
By #601496 at 14,Jan,20 12:19
Communism---a totalitarian system of government in which a single authoritarian party controls state-owned means of production

Sure sounds like the Trumpo administration.


By #601496 at 13,Jan,20 18:22


People ask me, "Why not Trumpo? Give us a reason." There's more than one reason. There's over 15000 reasons. That's the number of lies he's told the American public since his first day in office. He's less believable than a used car salesman.
By Scorps [Ignore] at 13,Jan,20 19:01 other posts 
So you say... His lies couldn't be any worse that claiming to have killed Osama Bin Laden OR Being born in the U.S. At least this guy's not dropping 150 billion U.S. dollars in cash to a terrorist nation that hates U.S. How fucking stupid is that!
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Oh! And as if anyone on this site gives a fuck about who YOU endorse... ROFLMAO 😄😆🤣😂 Keep dreaming! You've displayed enough hypocrisy to numb any mind with a modicum of brains.
By #601496 at 13,Jan,20 19:21
All 3 of those claims are false. You know it, the American public knows it,the world knows it. Regardless, it's old news, true or not. You Trumpo's supporters,every time an indefensible claim is made about this clown, fall back on the "Obama or Hilary" defence.
He did this, she did that, so laughable. Trumpo's been in office for 3yrs. When will he stand on his track record? Let me help you. The Iran-contra affair (Regan). Marilyn Monroe threesome (Kennedy brothers) Monica Lewinsky (the other Clinton).
Feel free to use when Trumpo does something else indefensible. BUT THE PROBLEM IS NOW. THIS JOKE OF A PRESIDENT IS NOT ONLY BREAKING THE LAW, HE'S DOWNRIGHT DANGEROUS.
By Scorps [Ignore] at 13,Jan,20 19:27 other posts 
Riiight riiight! Your delusional and should seek help
By #601496 at 13,Jan,20 20:04
Thatís the other argument. If you canít defend him, attack the messenger. All of your protests are missing the elephant in the middle of the room. Why havenít you commented on his 15000+ lies?
By Scorps [Ignore] at 13,Jan,20 22:12 other posts 
And what source are you citing? One that stated Hillary was our next President? OR A source that claimed the boys from Covington Catholic High school was shouting incendiary racially charged comments at an American Indian war veteran? OR The source that said the economy was gonna tank after Trump took office? Now which source are you citing for these supposed 15,000 lies? And do you expect ANYONE to believe those sources other than you?
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Let me guess... You win some and you lose some! Right? So what if they got some of that other shit wrong. 15,000 lies is ABSOLUTE truth this time. Wink wink
By #601496 at 13,Jan,20 22:40
You are not that stupid. That fake news shit lost itís luster a long time ago. You know the truth. Hmmm, on second thought, maybe you are that stupid. It doesnít matter. You not believing most of the worldís news services doesnít make it untrue. You are fairly young. I would love to know you 30 yrs from now and hear your opinions on Trumpo then.


By #601496 at 12,Jan,20 10:28
Twowarmtts! at 12,Jan,20 10:27 other posts Edit

Hereís where all the 2020 Democratic candidates stand on abortion rights. They overwhelmingly support repealing the Hyde Amendment and codifying Roe v. Wade into law.

only registered users can see external links

A breath of fresh air from the Trumpo era.
By Scorps [Ignore] at 12,Jan,20 15:39 other posts 
Oh sure, why not condone MURDER.

It fits right in with the rest of the dimwitted liberal way.

Them poor criminals!
Society has cause most people to be criminals and therefore we should free them all. Let the drug peddlers AND users free (afterall, one is just pursuing free enterprise, while the other is just trying to cope from the pressures of an unfair society), thieves (Oh them poor thieves! Society is SO cruel), child molesters and traffickers (FREE them too, they are just looking for a better life in a better country), habitual drunken drivers (FREE them too, it's not their fault society has caused them to drink so much), MURDERERS... They should be FREED too, especially if they came from another country illegally, OR (my favorite) if they are Black (afterall, EVERYTHING they do wrong is SOLELY because of the white man). I could go on and on with the nutty shit you people want and say. But I'll spare the membership. Good luck getting that bullshit through, the Pres. will just stomp it out like the filthy roach of a law that it is. We will be set for a loooong time once he wins reelection, the pukes lose the house, and that not very impressive of an antique called Ruth Bader-Ginsberg dies or retires and the Don will be able to appoint yet another decent respectable judge. It's going to be another great year.
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After thinking on it for a moment. I just have to say... Your one of the BIGGEST fucking hypocrites to draw breath! Even moreso than the very politicians you love to laud over. So, you claim to be in the healthcare industry and your self righteous compassion is unmatched for your fellow man. Yet you condone murdering a child OR making some do as YOU see fit as long as it's something YOU believe in. That's some kind of fucked up, Your very being is SO immersed in hypocrisy it's disgusting! It's a wonder you can look at yourself in the mirror everyday. You speak of grandchildren as if you highly adore them, yet condone the very act that could have stopped them from existing. Pathetic!
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Next time a drunken dude who doesn't want to be a father punches her in the belly numerous times killing the unborn we should throw our hands up and declare oh well, no harm no foul, right!?
By #601496 at 12,Jan,20 16:23
Next time a drunken dude who doesn't want to be a father punches her in the belly numerous times killing the unborn we should throw our hands up and declare oh well, no harm no foul, right!?
As usual, you missed the point. Getting punched by the drunken dude is not her CHOICE. You want to make it a murder vs a woman's right. Ok, I believe a woman should have the CHOICE to murder anything that's growing inside her. I say, "Get rid of the leech taking her life away."
HAPPY? And before you come crying it's against God's laws, let me remind you that you are all over the site trying to get or give a blow job. That is spilling your seed and half of that leech you think is so precious.
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You think I'm a hypocrite? How about you trying to deny affordable healthcare to that unwanted child? When was the last time you gave money for unwed mothers home? And, instead of getting your old lady prego, why didn't you adopt one of those unfortunate children? You and all the rest always think a pregnant woman that doesn't want to keep it got pregnant by being a whore or doing something wrong. Well,that's the hypocrite in YOU. Here's an idea. Let's create a tax of $100 per paycheck to go exclusively to the upbringing of unwanted children whose mothers are made to carry to term. Care to guess how many "upstanding" men and women suddenly will approve of abortion?
HYPOCRITE, YEAH!
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The God damned fucking thing is that they scream NO ABORTION-IT'S MURDER, but every single city and town in this country has an opioid and meth problem. Kids can buy guns at 18. We go to war at every "ASS-OF-THE-WORLD" nation where our kids DIE. Did you get that? They die. Every major city in this country has children dying of hunger. Every city in this country has children that are being prostituted. All because this country, the best of the best, won't help. Ah, but I forget myself. Candy, you forget God's soldiers. The priest, cardinals, reverands, rabbies.and all those other "men of the cloth". You know them. The ones that fuck little children in the name of Jesus or some such?
These children would have been spared so much suffering if ASSHOLE MEN WOULD STAY OUT OF OUR VAGINAS UNLESS INVITED.
By phart [Ignore] at 12,Jan,20 19:07 other posts 
You seem to forget,you were once a leech yourself.
If your mother had felt that way,you wouldn't be here.My mother lived a long time after I was born.My presence inside her did make some changes in her body BUT they were changes nature intended.It is called procreation.Or reproduce to carry on human kind to prevent extinction.
If murdering the baby 2 hours after it comes out of the chute is a crime,then it is a crime to kill it inside the chute.
The choice the woman made to allow herself the chance of getting a unwanted Leech as you call it,is the first bad choice she made.
The second bad choice was to be with a irresponsable male that has no interst in taking care of his creation.
The kid in there, kicking around,wanting out,can't speak for it's self.It's heart is beating,just like the mothers.It is another human being.It is not like taking your tonsils out like Elizabeth warren says. If you don't value a unborn child,how can you value a born child?

Inc3st,r@pe,and endangering the mothers life beyond any doubt should be the only reasons for the last resort of abortion to be a option.
Just because you got banged up when you fucked 6 guys and a donkey last month does not make it "ok" to go drop off the "leech" on the way to the shopping mall.That is murder.Period.
ANd HELL NO insurance should not cover abortion.That is no different than me calling the insurance company and saying,"Hey I want to pop a couple caps in some annoying neighbors,how much do you pay towards bullets?"

The real solution to the problem is taking responiablity for 1's actions.If a woman wants to fuck,fine,go tie the tubes or take a pill or get the 3 month shot. Ask a steady male partner to get his lines tied.Do something to eliminate the need for abortion in the first place.OR simply keep the zippers up and legs closed.
By #601496 at 12,Jan,20 19:38
And I rest my case. Itís the womanís fault. Sheís a whore. She should have taken more care, etc. Obviously you donít know that black and Latin men donít and wonít wear condoms. Female contraceptives need a prescription And what about the 16 yr old that is madly in love with some snot nosed kid and gets pregnant? You never met a mother with six kids who canít take care of another one? Did you go and adopt a child? Did you ever offer to pay for a pregnancy and the cost of an child until 18 yrs? You and your buddies all talk big and noble, but you have one finger in your ass and another in your mouth and switch them every 10 min. And thatís all you are good for. Big mouth like most males. Swinging your dick like Godís gift to women and talking bullish.it that you know nothing about.
By phart [Ignore] at 12,Jan,20 20:57 other posts 
Excuse me,BUT you need to reread the last paragraph.I Clearly state,OR ask a steady male partner to get his lines tied.I also said the second bad choice was a guy that didn't care. I DID not say it was all the womans fault,Reread. The men need to keep their zippers closed or up,I think you will find that mentioned up there about the zippers.

No I am not keeping up someone elses kids,I didn't make em,I aint feeding them.IF and that is a big if,I was ever married and the idea of raising a kid came up,I would go for adoption no problem.Less money out of pocket for health cost of my wife and less pain for her to go thru.And it gives a kid with little hope a chance.

You seem to advocate it is a womans right t be a whore. Whore perhaps,murderer,no.

Latin and black men don't wear condoms? Well, my goodness, the women need to bear that in mind when they part their legs don't they? "Um,If I don't want to pay for a abortion,I don't need to be fucking him".As for the 16 year old, well, if the parents didn't teach them,and the schools ran out of rubbers perhaps the male should go play bathroom bingo and get some condoms himself.
By #601496 at 12,Jan,20 21:28
Phart, do yourself a favor and re-read what Iíve wrote and then re-read what youíve wrote. Do it several times. Ask a friend to explain my post. Then, let me know what you think and provide the proofs of the things you think Iíve said.
By phart [Ignore] at 12,Jan,20 21:31 other posts 
I know what you said,and I know what I said,I don't need to phone a friend!
We disagree.Alot on this issue.
Responsiablity for 1's actions is a dieing concept.
By Scorps [Ignore] at 12,Jan,20 21:52 other posts 
You summed the WHOLE situation up very very nicely with that one statement. One she will NEVER understand. Ooops my dick slipped into your cunt and oooops the leach was brought to life. Personal responsibility for ones actions is faaar too big a concept to embrace. Funny part about it... THAT would damn near solve the ENTIRE abortion debate. Good job! 👏👏

In the mean time, we'll just keep expecting rational, civilized, responsible people to wipe their fucking noses for them and keep digging deeper giving more and more so that they can continue to live the life THEY want and fuck the responsible people.
By #601496 at 12,Jan,20 22:27
Scorps. You and your wife have six kids. You said before both of you wanted them. What if your wife gets pregnant again and she says to you, ďIím sorry Scorps, but I donít want to carry this one and I wonít. ď Where would your personal responsibility leave you?
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And why do you always say I wouldnít understand? Just because you think your way is the right way anyone who disagrees doesnít understand? I know what you are saying. I just donít agree with your way of doing things. Your way and my way are both possible solutions. You keep trying to define people that support a womanís right to choose as wanton, loose, scatter brain women who canít control themselves or their men. That doesnít say much for your respect of the female sex.
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Doesnít it say something that the US Supreme Court, in Roe v Wade agreed with the woman? Doesnít it say something that the majority of US women support pro-choose? Doesnít it say something that intelligent, law abiding members of government from both parties support pro-choose?
By #601496 at 12,Jan,20 22:43
Phart, you have a very poor concept of your fellow citizens
By phart [Ignore] at 13,Jan,20 09:01 other posts 
I am sad to say,your concept needs some tweeking.
Life is not something to take lightly.
If you walk up to a pregnant mother,and check her heart beat,you will also find a second 1 down a bit lower.

I can't disagree that childern are born unwanted and abused everyday.That is another problem that needs fixing.
But time would fix it IF people would change their ways.
Condoms can be had at any service station.Just as you say it is a womans right to choose,I could say it is her right to choose if a dick goes in her covered or uncovered.UNLESS you condone r@pe by these folks that don't wear them of course,they should either comply with the request or go find someone else to fuck.
That is what is hard to understand.The woman does not have to have sex with a unprotected dick if she does not want to get pregnant.Unless she is being r@ped.In that case the male should be jailed.
As for the supreme court,all Roe verse Wade says to me is there was a bunch of hipee sympathizers in the court system at the time.IF you take a minute to read what I said above,I am prochoice in the sense if the woman was r@ped or 1nest or danger to her health is indicated she should have a choice of aborting.
Abortions can be dangerous to you know.
To be in the medical field,your lack of compassion for the unborn concerns me as to the authenticy of your compassion for the born.Do you unplug old people ,because they are leeches? Do you unplug someone with brain damage? I mean where does the lack of compassion for human life stop and start for you? Not trying to be a ass, just trying to understand here.
By #601496 at 13,Jan,20 09:57
MY ANSWER TO YOU, PHART

I am sad to say,your concept needs some tweeking.
Life is not something to take lightly.
If you walk up to a pregnant mother,and check her heart beat,you will also find a second 1 down a bit lower.

I KNOW THAT, BUT NOT IN THE FIRST 30 DAYS. SO, NO HEART BEAT, NO INDEPENDENT LIFE.
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I can't disagree that childern are born unwanted and abused everyday.That is another problem that needs fixing.
But time would fix it IF people would change their ways.

IF PEOPLE WOULD CHANGE THEIR WAYS. PEOPLE SELDOM CHAGE THEIR WAYS. BRINGING A CHILD INTO A LIFE OF POVERTY IS ABUSE. SOME PREGNANT WOMEN, RIGHT OR WRONG, DONíT WANT THAT. ITíS THEIR RIGHT TO CHOOSE.
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Condoms can be had at any service station.Just as you say it is a womans right to choose,I could say it is her right to choose if a dick goes in her covered or uncovered.UNLESS you condone r@pe by these folks that don't wear them of course,they should either comply with the request or go find someone else to fuck.

I DONíT CONDONE R@PE EVEN IN MARRIAGE, BUT, AS YOU KNOW WELL, CATHOLICS ARE PREVENTED FROM USING CONTRACEPTIVES. THE CHURCH ONLY ALLOWS THE RHYTHM METHOD. THIS IS NOTORIOUSLY UNRELIABLE. A CONTRADICTION RIGHT? SHE FOLLOWS DOCTRINE ON CONTRACEPTION AND SINS ON ABORTION. WELL, THE HUSBAND MAY BE A STRICT CATHOLIC SO SHE CANíT SAY NO TO HIM, BUT AFTER 7 KIDS HER INSIDES ARE FALLING OUT AND SHE DOESNíT WANT ANOTHER. ANOTHER THING, NO CONTRACEPTIVE IS 100% EFFECTIVE.
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That is what is hard to understand.The woman does not have to have sex with a unprotected dick if she does not want to get pregnant.Unless she is being r@ped.In that case the male should be jailed.

BUT ONCE R@PED SHE CANíT TAKE IT BACK, AND IF YOU SAY THAT WOULD BE AN EXCEPTION THEN YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE.
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As for the supreme court,all Roe verse Wade says to me is there was a bunch of hipee sympathizers in the court system at the time.

the court held that a set of Texas statutes criminalizing abortion in most instances violated a womanís constitutional right of privacy, which it found to be implicit in the liberty guarantee of the due process clause of the Fourteenth Amendment (ďÖnor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of lawĒ).

NO HIPIES. JUST AN AFFIRMATION OF THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION. I FIND THAT PEOPLE THINK SOME AMENDMENTS (LIKE THE SECOND-RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS) SHOULD BE LISTENED TO AND OTHER AMENDMENTS SHOULD BE IGNORED. AGAIN, HYPOCRITES.
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IF you take a minute to read what I said above,I am prochoice in the sense if the woman was r@ped or 1nest or danger to her health is indicated she should have a choice of aborting.
Abortions can be dangerous to you know.

I KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO SAY BUT YOU ARE A HYPOCRITE. THE CHILD IS INNOCENT OF THE ACTIONS OF HIS BIOLOGICAL PARENTS. R@PE DOES NOT CONCERN THE CHILD. YOU ARE SAYING, ďITíS MURDER BUT ITíS OK SOMETIMES.Ē YOU CANíT HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO.
AND YOU ARE RIGHT, ABORTIONS CAN BE DANGEROUS (ALTHOUGH THESE DAYS ITíS VERY SAFE), BUT THAT IS A CHOICE FOR THE WOMAN TO MAKE. NOT SOME LEGISLATIVE OLD FOGGY SMOKING A CIGAR IN A STATE LEGISLATURE.
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To be in the medical field,your lack of compassion for the unborn concerns me as to the authenticy of your compassion for the born.Do you unplug old people ,because they are leeches? Do you unplug someone with brain damage? I mean where does the lack of compassion for human life stop and start for you? Not trying to be a ass, just trying to understand here.

SOMETIMES MY CHOICE OF WORDS GET ME IN TROUBLE. I FIND THAT SOME PEOPLE WONíT READ MY WORDS. THEY ASSUME I SAID SOMETHING AND RUN WITH IT. THATíS WHY I, SOMETIMES, USE TERMS THAT SHOCK THE READER. ITíS MEANT TO WAKE YOU UP TO WHAT IíM TRYING TO SAY.
TELL ME WHAT DOES SUPPORTING A WOMANíS RIGHT TO CHOOSE AN ABORTION HAVE TO DO WITH MY CAREING FOR THE LIVING. I BELIEVE THAT LIFE IS PRECIOUS UNTIL THE VERY LAST SECOND OUR LORD SEES FIT TO LET US LIVE IT. I WOULD NO MORE ďUNPLUGĒ AN OLD PERSONíS LIFE KEEPING DEVICES THAN HAVE AN ABORTION. TO ME, THE LIFE OF MY UNBORN CHILD IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN MY LIFE, BUT THAT IS MY CHOICE. THATíS WHY I HAVE TO SUPPORT OTHER WOMENíS CHOICE TOO. I KNOW THAT NO MATTER WHAT I SAY IT WILL NOT SATISFY YOU. I DONíT EXPECT IT. IF THIS COULD BE REASONED AWAY, 5000 YRS OF MISERY COULD HAVE BEEN AVOIDED. ALL I ASK IS UNDERSTANDING IF NOT AGREEMENT. SORRY FOR THE FORM OF ANSWER.


By #601496 at 07,Jan,20 21:29
I like Bloomberg. I like what he says about socialized medicine
By kebmo [Ignore] at 09,Jan,20 11:03 other posts 
I will never understand why Americans don't want Medicare for everyone. I don't get the concept of selling your house for medical procedures.
I GLADLY pay more taxes for Medicare. A friend of mine just passed from breast cancer and she had the best possible care and paid nothing out of pocket for it.
I can go to any hospital and see any doctor in my home province of Alberta for any legitimate procedure and never pay out of pocket. If I'm elsewhere in Canada there's more paperwork but Alberta Health Care will pay.
By #601496 at 09,Jan,20 11:13
Keb, I don't either. The old argument that your wait time to see a doctor is too long doesn't wash. I have 3 specialists I go to every year. All three give me appointments a minimum of 3 months into the future. They get the same payment than a regular private insurer pays. So, why not? Charlie is on Medicare. I'm on private insurance. Both are handled by Blue Cross Blue Shield. The website is the same. the codes are similar. The contact phones are the same. The forms are the same. So what, except for billing purposes and government paperwork, is the difference?
By kebmo [Ignore] at 09,Jan,20 21:35 other posts 
Just to clarify, if I see a specialist my doctor's office makes the appointment then the specialist calls me with a time and date. Alberta Health does not cover dental, prescriptions, glasses and some other things but if I had a heart attack it would cost me nothing except the medications I would take AFTER I leave the hospital.
I have never filled out any paperwork for payment purposes.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 09,Jan,20 23:57 other posts 
How are we going to pay for it ? Have you seen some of the number ? They say it will cost 34-52 trillion over 10 years. We have already spent 22 trillion more then we collect in taxes so far. So you must see the big problem we have.

Here is some simple math say national heath care is 4 trillion a year, from what I could find their are 155 million working people in the USA.

That's $25,806 per year in new taxes. Who has that kind of money. If anyone has different number let's hear them
By kebmo [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 00:28 other posts 
Then how come every other western country can do it but the US can't? Who is "they" that you quote this number from?
It is estimated that the province of Alberta spent $5,100 per Albertan on health care in 2018.
only registered users can see external links
No hospitals in Canada are designed to make a profit as apposed to American hospitals.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 07:10 other posts 
The people that want national heath care in USA don't know how much it will cost. They just like the idea. Elizabeth Warren cwho is pushing for it can't even tell us how much it will cost. The numbers are all over the place.

One reason we can't do so easy vs other countries we spend our money on other thing. The biggest would be our military. If USA want to keep be the super power of the world it cost money. Trump just said we sent 2 trillion more on the military. Their is part of our national health care money.

Doctors in the USA have to make a profit to pay for the medical school and the hospitals have to make a profit and the insurance companies have to make a profit. We have a lot of illegal citizens in the USA. If they go to hospital, we have to pay for them if they don't have health insurance.
By kebmo [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 14:08 other posts 
Petro635 you didn't answer my question.

Who is "they" that said it would cost $34-52T?

There are many examples in the Western World of how to pay for universal healthcare. It can be done.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 17:50 other posts 
They, are the people trying to find a number as to how much it will cost since the person say how good it will be won't saor can't give number because it to complicated to figure out. Yes is possible if we want to pay for it. All we have to do is cut spending on something else or raise taxes.
By kebmo [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 23:49 other posts 
Canada taxes the hell out of cigarettes and alcohol because ďtheyĒ are high users of health care.
I doubt that your number is correct.

added after 54 minutes...ÖÖ.

If the US population of 372M had healthcare for the same price as Alberta's per capita of $5,100 per year it would cost about $1.9T. Even if you double that it would still be less than $4T, nowhere near the $34-52T that "they" say.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 09:03 other posts 
You can listen to this story or read it. I just played the audio. Elizabeth Warren is running for President and her numbers are 54 trillion to fund national heath care. But we are already pay for heath insurance today. So it would be 20.5 trillion more in taxes over 10 years. So an extra 2 trillion every year over what we are paying in taxes already. All we need to now is how many people in USA are actually working and paying taxes. Then we can just see how much more everyones will have to pay.

only registered users can see external links
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 09:25
See my post below
By #601496 at 10,Jan,20 09:23
Medicare is costing the government about 600 billion a year. Three plus trillion more is not that much more. You say 155 million working people would shoulder the debt. Didn't you forget business taxes? How about the fact that Trumpo cut taxes for big business. How about that famous tax cut to all workers that was not supposed to raise the national debt? The U.S. is entering new debt levels more than a year after Trump signed a $1.5 trillion tax cut that decreased the top corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 21 percent. The legislation also gave most U.S. taxpayers at least a small break, although the largest benefits went to the wealthiest Americans
A tax cut of $1.5 trillion plus the crumbs for the average taxpayer. Simple math, friend.
BTW, Medicare is paid by the following
Medicare is financed by two trust funds: the Hospital Insurance (HI) trust fund and the Supplementary Medical Insurance (SMI) trust fund. The HI trust fund finances Medicare Part A and collects its income primarily through a payroll tax on U.S. workers and employers. The SMI trust fund, which supports both Part B and Part D, receives most of its income from the federal governmentís general fund because premiums only cover about one-quarter of this fundís costs. Part C, on the other hand, is paid for through both the HI and SMI trust funds and collects its income from a combination of the general fund, payroll taxes, premiums paid by beneficiaries, and out-of-pocket charges.
These trust funds were specifically established to pay for Medicare. Medicare for all would include the rest of the population. I would gladly vote to cut our military spending to help out. Your Trumpo ran on promises to get us out of these forever wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. We are still waiting. In the meantime he cuts corporate taxes. Smart.
--------------------------------------- added after 3 minutes

I THOUGHT I WOULD POST THIS SEPARATE AS IT"S IMPORTANT.

The U.S. government's public debt is now more than $22 trillion ó the highest it has ever been. The Treasury Department data comes as tax revenue has fallen and federal spending continues to rise. The new debt level reflects {{{{{{{a rise of more than $2 trillion from the day President Trump took office in 2017.Feb 13, 2019}}}}}}
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And last but not least. This country is rich with wealth. We are a country of the people, by the people and for the people. Yet, many of it's citizens are willing to have our population suffer hunger and pestilence in the name of the almighty dollar. I say, "Quit bitching about our social programs like Medicare, Social Security, Food Stamps, Unemployment Insurance and Socialized Medicine. Find a way to pay for it instead of being SO NEGATIVE."
By phart [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 09:41 other posts 
Ok,I ask,give us some ideas how to pay for it.That won't take away the incentive for investers to continue investing,like not being able to profit from their investments. A way to pay for it that won't rob the average workers paycheck any more than it already is,again,taking away incentives to work.
Just asking for actuall ideas here.Politicians pushing for this cradle to grave can't explain how to pay for it,and I can understand why,they are dumbass puppets of the Soros and liberal wealthy people that hide their money in foriegn lands.
By #601496 at 10,Jan,20 10:00
The controversial Tax Cuts and Jobs Act, signed by President Donald Trump in December 2017, lowered the corporate tax rate to 21 percent from 35 percent, among other cuts. Thatís partly to blame for giving corporations an easier way out of paying taxes, said Matthew Gardner, an ITEP senior fellow and lead author of the report. The new corporate tax rate ďlowers the bar for the amount of tax avoidance it takes to get you down to zero,Ē he said.


TRUMPíS TAX CUTS: THE RICH GET RICHER
Published ó April 11, 2019
YOU PAID TAXES. THESE CORPORATIONS DIDNíT.
Amazon.com Inc.ís U.S. profits before taxes were $10.8 billion in 2018, made by shipping everything from womenís cocktail dresses to toilet paper. But unlike its millions of customers, the company paid no taxes in the United States last year and said it was owed $129 million. (AP Photo/David Zalubowski)

About twice as many of the largest U.S. companies reported they didnít owe taxes in 2018 compared with previous years, a partial result of the 2017 Trump tax law, according to a report.

You paid taxes. These corporations didnít.
Introduction
ĎI donít see that being fairí
We pay all required taxes
Profits: Half a billion. Refund: $342M
Kathryn Kranhold
Kathryn Kranhold

Contributing Reporter
This story was published in partnership with NBC News.

INTRODUCTION
The Center for Public Integrity is a nonprofit newsroom that investigates betrayals of public trust. Sign up to receive our stories.

Taxpayers are scrambling to make last-minute payments due to the Internal Revenue Service in just four days, but many of the countryís largest publicly-held corporations are doing better: Theyíve reported they owe absolutely nothing on the billions of dollars in profits they earned last year.

At least 60 companies reported that their 2018 federal tax rates amounted to effectively zero, or even less than zero, on income earned on U.S. operations, according to an analysis released today by the Washington, D.C.-based think tank, the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. The number is more than twice as many as ITEP found roughly, per year, on average in an earlier, multi-year analysis before the new tax law went into effect.

Among them are household names like technology giant Amazon.com Inc. and entertainment streaming service Netflix Inc., in addition to global oil giant Chevron Corp., pharmaceutical manufacturer Eli Lilly & Co., and farming and commercial equipment manufacturer Deere & Co.

The identified companies were ďable to zero out their federal income taxes on $79 billion in U.S. pretax income,Ē according to the ITEP report, which was released today. ďInstead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year.Ē To compile the list, ITEP analyzed the 2018 financial filings of the countryís largest 560 publicly-held companies.

The following is a list of the countryís largest publicly-held profitable corporations that paid no federal income taxes in 2018 on billions in U.S. income, according to ITEP analysis of 560 companies. ITEP reports U.S. income before federal taxes, and takes into consideration paid state and local taxes, which could reduce or increase U.S. income. The report does not look at total tax provision, a number that could include foreign taxes and deferred taxes. All figures, except for tax rate, are in millions.
The identified companies were ďable to zero out their federal income taxes on $79 billion in U.S. pretax income,Ē according to the ITEP report, which was released today. ďInstead of paying $16.4 billion in taxes, as the new 21 percent corporate tax rate requires, these companies enjoyed a net corporate tax rebate of $4.3 billion, blowing a $20.7 billion hole in the federal budget last year.Ē To compile the list, ITEP analyzed the 2018 financial filings of the countryís largest 560 publicly-held companies.


I say, "Remove all loopholes from corporate income taxes. Bring the rate back to 35%. Have all recipients of Medicare for All pay a modest monthly amount except for hardship situations. Regulate medical procedures (price equality) and open medication to generics and out of country meds and regulate costs of development and profit.
By phart [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 13:16 other posts 
regulating cost reduces quality of care.Your care would be reduced to minimum to reduce pain.I am willing to bet hip surgery on someone over 65 would be reduced or eliminated for example. Why fix a old person when you can fix a tax payer would be the idea behind it.Not saying it would happen but regulating cost,regulates profit and doctors don't like to work for nothing,can't pay thier college debts and oh my gosh,might have to drive a chevy. After a while people would see doctors not living any better than trash truck drivers and would not bother going to medical school.
Not saying I don't agree at all with what you are saying.
As far as mdicine,if there is a way to make sure it is quality and we would be getting what we are paying for,I am all for getting it from the cheapest source.It would reduce cost alot because it would prompt competition.

It is also my understanding that insurance is territorial. I would say fix that to open up competition as well.THere are ways to reduce cost,but gouging our industry and investors and high end tax payers can backfire.
By #601496 at 10,Jan,20 13:36
Regulated costs doesn't have to be a bad thing. A doctor should expect to be paid well for a procedure. I meant that a procedure should costs the same in Alaska as in Florida. No one wants a doctor to drive a chevy. I just think that driving a Lamborghini is a bit too much. You also forget that life goes on. What does it mean? It means that 12 months after an adjustment like this,it'll be business as usual but under new rules.Medicare was established in the Johnson administration. Did it stop the world? No.
--------------------------------------- added after 12 minutes

One more thing. Charlie takes Eliquist because he has atrial fibrillation. Without insurace he would have to pay $480 for a month's supply (60). With insurance it's $ 43. Charlie has family in Argentina. The same medication costs about $6. We are getting ripped off.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 18:03 other posts 
I think you forgetting something about Corporate taxes. All they will do is pass the price onto the product they sell. So you will pay for that tax.

Another thing corporation can move. If the tax is to hight they can just move to another country and now you don't get any taxes. You can't force people to do something just because YOU want something for free. You can go and help but food for anyone you think needs help. You can give your money to anyone that needs help. You can do lots of things to help people yourself. If you can figure out how to pay for national heath care and it's reasonable he might go with your idea.
By #601496 at 10,Jan,20 18:40
It's not free. Taxes, my taxes and yours and corporations taxes are paying. Right now Medicare pays about 80% of medical cost. The other 20 is your responsibility. That's why they have part C. You pay $130 a month out of your retirement pay and it works like private insurance. Something similar can be instituted. After all, isn't private insurance provided by your employer costing you two or three times as much?. Going back to corporate taxes. If the corporation raises it's prices, it's not automatic that customers Will buy their products. Competition will out a costly product. It's all give and take. How about if a corporation moves out of the country, we double it's import duties. They won't be competitive. They won't want to loose this market. You forget that companies are here to sell their wares, not play the tax game.
--------------------------------------- added after 4 minutes

And your argument is flawed. After all, aren't we, now, paying for the taxes a corporation pays today? A few hundred thousand dollars more divided by a million customers is less than a buck.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 10,Jan,20 22:51 other posts 
I don't think your average American would vote for national heath care. The government never get the correct numbers on the real cost of stuff. Here is old story about Elizabeth Warren plan. They are saying 54 trillion dollars over 10 years and we would need 20 trillion in new taxes to make it work.

only registered users can see external links

We can't even pay the 21 trillion national debt currently. How are we going to pay for an extra 20 trillion for national heath care ? If we could or would pay down the current national debt I would say it's possible. We as Americans don't want to even balance the budget yet.
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 07:13
Again, you are comparing apples and oranges. The national debt is like a mortgage on your home. You owe hundreds of thousands but you pay a small monthly portion. You still can buy a car, go on vacation, and go out to dinner. You can tax your employer every year (ask for a raise) for an increase. Americans are not the only ones that carry a deficit. Blame Congress (Republican controlled most of the time) for not passing a law that requires a balanced budget. Look at this.

Beginning with the 1998 budget year, during his second term, the federal government ran a yearly budget surplus through FY 2001. During the Clinton administration, there was an official surplus of $419 billion during fiscal years 1998, 1999, 2000, and 2001.

Also, National Health Care does not have to be voted on. Congress can pass one or more bills to create it. The voters did not vote for Social Security, Medicare, or Obama Care.

It can be done. There'll have to be some adjustments. The insurance companies will have to be included as they are the most knowledgeable. Assurances will have to be made to healthcare providers that they wouldn't be financially hurt. But, when everything is said and done, can anyone really be against warrantied affordable health care for all?
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 08:41 other posts 
If we were actually paying down the national debt a little bit every year, just like a mortgage. I would agree with you. We could then say let's all pay more and have national heath care. If the number of 20 trillion more in taxes is correct for 10. It pretty simple math. 20 trillion by 155 million. That's $129,000 more in taxes over 10 years for each person or $12,900 per year

If you have different numbers put them on here. Can you afford to pay your share of the 20 trillion, $12,900 that's what it will cost this year in more taxes.
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 09:21
Baby, these are some numbers from the
Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget
only registered users can see external links

How Much Will Medicare for All Cost?
FEB 27, 2019 | HEALTH CARE

Senator Sanders's 2017 legislation would cost the federal government $27.7 trillion through 2028 assuming steep provider cuts and $32.1 trillion assuming no provider cuts (these estimates, like most others, assume immediate implementation).Importantly, these totals represent the increased cost to the federal government, not the change of total national health expenditures. National health expenditures would likely change by no more than a few trillion dollars over the decade. The direction of that change is unclear and would depending on the whether the increased cost of expanding coverage (by making health insurance more generous and offering it to more people) is larger or smaller than the amount saved from lower provider payments, drug payments, and administrative spending.

The totals also do not represent debt impact, which would depend not only on the cost to the federal government but also on any funds the government might choose to raise through premiums, taxes, or both. For example, Senator Sanders's campaign plan included roughly $11 trillion of tax increases, which could fund more than one-third of Medicare for All.


IN PARTICULAR I WANT YOU TO NOTE THIS SENTENCE:
"expenditures would likely change by no more than a few trillion dollars over the decade"

I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU GOT YOUR NUMBERS BUT I SUSPECT YOU GOT THE HEADLINE ONLY AND YOU MADE YOUR ASSUMPTIONS WITHOUT MAKING AN IN DEPTH RESEARCH.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 11:35 other posts 
It says 28-32 trillion

Did you see were it says the number would be an INCREASE COST to federal government


Importantly, these totals represent the increased cost to the federal government, not the change of total national health expenditures. National health expenditures would likely change by no more than a few trillion dollars over the decade. The direction of that change is unclear and would depending on the whether the increased cost of expanding coverage (by making health insurance more generous and offering it to more people) is larger or smaller than the amount saved from lower provider payments, drug payments, and administrative spending.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 11:42 other posts 
Did you forget to include this part of the info from same website. TRIPlING PAYROLL TAXES or MORE THEN DOUBLING ALL OTHER TAXES

While any new revenue would in part be replacing current premiums, identifying pay-fors still remains a challenge. Enacting this type of Medicare for All would mean increasing federal spending by about 60 percent (excluding interest), and financing a $30 trillion program would require the equivalent of tripling payroll taxes or more than doubling all other taxes.

Supporters of Medicare for All should work to identify new revenue, premiums, and/or spending cuts to finance new federal costs or else scale back their proposal if they are unable to identify sufficient funding.
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 12:01
Petro, I gave you all I've got. You still want to put your own spin on it. Ok. You are right and a bunch of economists are wrong. When we get socialized meds, make sure you opt out. We know you don't have those thousands of dollars to pay for your healthcare. I sincerely hope you have a very, very healthy life. Bye.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 13:13 other posts 
Those are from the same website you got your info from. You keep posting all the negatives Trump stiff. For some reason you don't think you could wrong also. So just like last time, you can vote your opinion and that all. So let see who the people vote for again. It like you don't want to see the info other people show you. If you want answer a simple question just say how you are going to pay you share of the cost. Don't try and put it off on corporations. You want national heath care . You better be willing to pay for it.
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 13:15
Last I checked the IRS takes 14% less deductions from my payroll check. If it changes I'll rethink it.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 19:20 other posts 
It will changes if you want national heath care. They will have to triple your current rate.
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 19:31
Petro, I don't believe that.
By Petro635 [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 21:18 other posts 
I'm not sure why you don't believe it. It's on the Committee for a Responsible Federal Government website.

only registered users can see external links
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 21:18
Fake news
By admin [Ignore] at 11,Jan,20 12:14 other posts 
Good point. Most of people do not realize that most of technologies and drugs that are used today in government subsidized medicare systems all over the world were actually developed for profits in USA.
By #601496 at 11,Jan,20 12:55
So true
By phart [Ignore] at 12,Jan,20 09:29 other posts 
To think that government run health care and the national debt are seperate is wrong.All taxes and social security goes into the governments bottomless pitt of money to waste.
The politcians pay for their states piss ant testicale museums and bridges and your health care all out of the same pot of public money.So health care would run up the national debt.
IF you owe a house payment,and that bank goes tits up,they expect their money in full. So it is not impossiable for other countrys to want their money.
By #601496 at 12,Jan,20 10:03
First, everything the federal government or any government down to a city government pays for, they do so with tax money collected, but, there are quirks. Today's Social Security payouts are funded by the payroll deductions of TODAY'S PAYCHECKS. The money you pay b4 retirement went to pay retirees checks at that time.
If the bank repos your house they have the local sheriff to throw you out of your house. How many countries you think would dare go to war with us over a monetary debt?--------------------------------------- added after 2 minutesSecond. If your Congressman votes for too much PORK, vote him out. We are, supposedly, a democracy even though Trumpo wants us to call him "EL SUPREMO"


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