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The CAUSE of SCHOOL SHOOTINGS in the US has finally been found.

Discussion Forum on Show It Off

Page #1

Pages:  #1   #2  

Started by leopoldij [Ignore] 30,May,18 13:06  other posts
It's
● PORNOGRAPHY

Some other causes, according to the NRA and many conservatives, include:

● intense news coverage of mass shootings,
● video games,
● abortion
● lack of religion,
● inadequate control of entry into schools,
● the act of going to school itself.

People used to think that guns are responsible for killing. We now know that it's pornography that's responsible for killings.


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Comments:
By leopoldij [Ignore] 24,May,22 19:13 other posts 
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--------------------------------------- added after 36 seconds

So, where's the pornography in today's shooting?
By phart [Ignore] 24,May,22 19:34 other posts 
I still say what I said way down below
"You gota blame somebody! You can't take the blame yourself!.
That is the new thought process.I did some thinking about it.

example
"My mother didn't let me have a bb gun to shoot squirrels.So I went and bought a Ak-47 and shot people!"
You see,I coulda claimed that 20-30 years ago and folks would have thought I was bonkers. But now, it would be considered a legit reason!
How could that happen? To much psycho babble in the legal system.
If a person is wacko and someone knows it,take care of them before they kill"


By #460385 09,Nov,18 09:12
Why don't we just call it what it is. These people who do this are mentally ill and insane. No matter what their beliefs are.
By #551147 09,Nov,18 09:35
You've almost caused me to tear up...

Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one with a touch of common sense around here.

Well Said!
By leopoldij [Ignore] 09,Nov,18 10:12 other posts 
Sure. Anyone who kills has a problem. But equally problematic are those who say that shootings are due to pornography or lack of religion.
By #551147 09,Nov,18 10:16
I agree with that!

I personally give no one a pass for outside influences, it's as simple as that. Each person is responsible for their own actions, period!

I was rockin out to the White Zombie and decided I should go kill Mormons. What kinda fucking non sense would it be to blame White Zombie?
By phart [Ignore] 09,Nov,18 10:54 other posts 
You gota blame somebody! You can't take the blame yourself!.
That is the new thought process.I did some thinking about it.

example
"My mother didn't let me have a bb gun to shoot squirrels.So I went and bought a Ak-47 and shot people!"
You see,I coulda claimed that 20-30 years ago and folks would have thought I was bonkers. But now, it would be considered a legit reason!
How could that happen? To much psycho babble in the legal system.
If a person is wacko and someone knows it,take care of them before they kill.
By #460385 09,Nov,18 22:22
I like that idea. Whack the mother fucker before he whacks you.
By Hotcaramel91 [Ignore] 28,Nov,18 12:36 other posts 
exactly. you cant blame porn, video games or any of the other reasons that people try to find. I watch porn, play my fair share of violent video games and i'm not going around shooting up places. it's something already wrong with the person mentally.


By leopoldij [Ignore] 09,Nov,18 08:27 other posts 
How about the recent shootings?
By #551147 09,Nov,18 08:58
If I indulge you with the answer your seeking, do I win a prize? 🤔

I'll indulge you anyway...

The answer you seek, is... Donald J. Trump's mere existence, coupled with white nationalists, conservatives, fox news, Republicans, and NRA members. Take your pick as to which one or all holds the blame.

They surely aren't just wack jobs that should have been aborted long ago... It's someone else's fault, shooters hold NO responsibility for their actions when they're being bombarded with such ignorance from any and or all the above mentioned sources.

Do I win?


By admin [Ignore] 30,May,18 16:39 other posts 
I agree, those arguments about porn and videogames are retarded. There is probably some degradation of values but I doubt it comes from videogames and surely porn has nothing to do with it. Porn affects how you view sex and gender roles, but not the value of life.

But the statement that guns are responsible for killing is equally silly. People are responsible for killings. Guns do not have free will to shoot anyone, people do. Availability of guns makes it easier. But I grew up in a country with strictest gun laws, criminals still had them and people still were killed. You want to be a famous mass murderer? You grab a car and hit a crowd at 90 mph. You just want to enjoy killings silently? You don't need a gun at all. Most of serial killers do not use guns and they often manage to kill 30-50 people before being caught if caught at all.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 31,May,18 08:14 other posts 
What you say makes sense, Of course pornography isn't the cause of school shootings, but people in that country who use religion to "solve" their problems (more than in any other country in the west) will come up with any bullshit explanation they can.

Now, of course you can kill someone with a car. However, those who target schools are not doing it because they want to kill anyone, they want to kill their classmates, their teachers. They don't want to drive a car to hit an arbitrary crowd, they want to hit school members. This is easier to do it with a gun. Cars are not effective in schools, pupils can't drive a car easily in a classroom full of students, it's easier for them to shoot with a gun.
By admin [Ignore] 31,May,18 10:26 other posts 
You can much more easily kill an entire class with a home-made explosive, incendiary or chemical bomb. Indeed it requires a little bit more of knowledge than just to use a gun, but if you really h@te your classmates that much you can manage it. It's not a rocket science, really, the knowledge is in 8th grade chemistry books.

This January in Russia there were 2 attacks at schools with Molotov cocktail and an axe. 4 injured in one case, 15 in the other.

Banning all guns wont change things much at schools. Then you will have to ban axes, knives, screwdrivers, put under control a bunch of substances including fertilizer and domestic solvents. And then you will be all slaves to your government afraid to sneeze. But I guess some people like that more than freedoms.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 31,May,18 10:35 other posts 
That's true. You're right about explosives. Shows I haven't given much thought to the subject as I would never ever possess any of such things, weapons, explosives, etc. To me, all that is alien and disgusting.
By phart [Ignore] 04,Jun,18 13:47 other posts 
some things can be created from chemicals used in the home.At 1 time there was a certain toilet bowel cleaner in the US that could be put in a bottle with tinfoil and make a bomb.
It has happened around here to be cleaning up a estate where a elderly farmer has died and find dynamite that has leaked. Have to call in specialist to clean it up.Used to could buy it at the local hardware to get rid of stumps when clearing fields. Due to idiots that kill and destroy you have to hire contractors with backhoes to remove stumps instead of a couple cheap sticks of dynamite.

Most people consider killing and maiming disgusting. It is the sick 1's that don't.
I wonder what we could do with the sicko's if we could find them BEFORE they kill?
By #435701 07,Jun,18 13:08
In response to your 2nd post, Admin...funny how 'freedom' 'trumps' death by gun! By your definition, 'Muricah' be da freest cuntry in da wole dang world! Because we die by gun more than ANY other supposedly 'civilized' country. See my previous post for crazy gun death totals. Then compare them to other countries that have not had gun production double since 2008. Just to compare that total, 2009 had over 5 Million guns made. Gee. That must mean we are over 10,000,000 now.
Really. Wake up. You're just spouting what 'they' want you to say and believe while 'they' make small individual fortunes producing weapons...This country is ALL about money and you and I are NOT part of that 1%...We are just the cannon fodder dying @ over 11,000 of us a year. 32,000 including suicide by gun. Just to support their wealth.
By admin [Ignore] 07,Jun,18 13:21 other posts 
You should not compare death by guns to death by guns in countries where there are almost no guns. You should compare murders.

Also, I'm not American, I lived most of my life in countries where guns were not permitted. And I did not feel safer at all, comparing to the time I lived in USA. But I did feel much less free there than in USA.

You do not value freedom and you are destined to lose it. You will understand what you lost only when it's too late.
By #435701 07,Jun,18 13:30
Guilty as charged, Admin...Missed the part about you not being American...I also have spent a large part of my life outside the US...But we are ONLY talking about guns in America and not deaths in general and how they occur...Freedom is an illusive term and only known by those that have experienced much less freedom than here in the US...Even tho, as I said, this country is also not totally free. And getting ever more so at a much faster rate...
You and I are talking from different viewpoints. So sad. So is everybody else these days...I wish you much peace and happiness in your life in this country.
By #551147 09,Nov,18 08:42
Damn... Your Brilliant!! 😍😍 @ Admin
By #435701 07,Jun,18 12:36
Valid arguments about killing, Admin...but...there be some iddy biddy flaws in your argument that guns kill, 'people don't.' OK, I rephrased it to match NRA's take So sue me ...Serial killers, people driving cars @ 90, knives, strangulations and all the other imaginative ways humans intentionally do each other in, do NOT come close to matching the over 33,000 gun deaths (CDC stat from 2013. 21,000 suicides, rest are homicides) That nearly matches the total deaths by automobile, most of which are unintentional, in same year...Guns make any intentional killing SO MUCH EASIER. So much less messy. All those other means are just not viable for 'run of the mill' murderers Serial killings are for 'pros' and 'humanoids' that get their kicks watching the life leave another person's eyes. It's their favorite 'hobby'. Cars @ 90 are for cheapskates/terrorists that don't care if
they're caught. For the rest of us potential killers, guns ARE the weapon of choice WHY? Because they are so plentiful and SO easy to obtain in this country. I would even go so far as to say that their easy availability CAUSES more murders than would naturally occur without them around. At least 11,000 + homicide victims would still be alive in 2013. That is now 5 years past and now the total is likely higher. 5X11,000 = Do the math and for all the years before as well.
By admin [Ignore] 07,Jun,18 12:51 other posts 
Do you know that Russia, Brazil and Venezuela where guns are pretty much outlawed have way more per capita murders than US?

Do you know that thugs in Russia or in South America where they don't have guns often hit you with something heavy in the head when they want to rob you and you often die or become a vegetable while in other countries where they rob you with a gun if you do not resist you most likely to survive?

But anyway, that's not what you really have to weight in. You have to compare how much robberies, home intrusions, r@pes and other crimes are stopped yearly against death from guns. Almost all of those crimes will be unstopped if you ban guns. Don't count on police, when you are killed they will do an autopsy.

Also, you have chances to be shot in mass murder about 1 in 11000. You have 1 in 51 chances to die from diabetes. Makes much more sense to ban sugar and candy than guns.
By #435701 07,Jun,18 13:22
Empty arguments Admin. You obviously did NOT read my response or think about it other than to just respond like you're an active NRA member feeling threatened....I own a gun for exactly what you said. Home invasions etc...And I DON'T care about S. America, Russia etc. and how they will hit me on the head. At least I will have a chance to defend myself. They shoot me...I just be dead And I DON'T care about Diabetes. I am diabetic. So I know the odds and methods of my demise...But again...I can do something about that. They shoot me...I just be dead...Really. Try to actually THINK this time about what you are saying. It's really simple if you don't get too involved in saying dying by gun is what makes your country 'free'...We are NOT free, BTW. That is just a magnificent illusion...But we can discuss that another time.
By admin [Ignore] 07,Jun,18 13:36 other posts 
You can't defend yourself even with a bazooka if someone really wants to kill you. They just hit you from behind. And if you are unarmed you can't do shit against 2 men with knives even if you are an ex-marine.

It surprises me that you live in a culture of guns and understand so little about how it works. Armed society is not about you having gun to protect yourself. It's about other law-obedient honest people having guns and able to help you.

In society where guns are prohibited it's typical that someone is being robbed or beaten and others just pass by or film it with their phones. No one intervenes.

And don't be naive, they won't stop at guns ban. They will issue other laws later that make self-defense difficult. Most of countries with no guns have such laws. You can go to prison for injuring a thug that tried to rob you.
By #435701 07,Jun,18 14:02
Believe me. I am not naive about freedom. Because it truly is rated on a graduated scale, depending on where one happens to live on our beautiful planet. And freedom is ever changing, as is being proven in the last couple of years of having a wanna be King as da 'Prez'...I KNOW 'they' won't stop at guns as one thing ALWAYS leads to another...There are so few of 'them' in power Worldwide. In the hundreds against 'our' Billions. And yet they control all our destinies, no matter where you live.
Guns, weapons of ALL kinds, are going to be the ending of man'kind'. There has to be a start to ending this madness that has over 14,000 Nuclear Weapons Worldwide...Microcosm vs Macrocosm. It's ALL connected.
By phart [Ignore] 07,Jun,18 12:52 other posts 
Did Prohibition stop alcohol use in the US? Nope.Before it was easy to get.People drank. The government made it il1egal.

People still wanted it, they got it and drank.

The government realized that they could make money,so they started selling the alcohol to the people.And they still Drink. Only now 1000's of dollars are made by lawyers and l@wenforcement for various reasons like Dui.

Now, if we applied that same logic to guns. People want to kill. Take away the guns. People will still want to kill. Before you know it the ABC store will be selling bullets and people will still be wanting to kill.

It goes back to what I have been harping on for a week on this thread. Figure out why some people know not to kill and teach that information to the rest. Those that learn run free, those that don't go somewhere locked up.
By #435701 07,Jun,18 13:43
Hi Phart-You are so right about Prohibition. Compares to drugs these days, don't you think?...You are also right about killing. I have said many times we are a murderous race with the history to prove it But you bring up so many other sore points. Locking up, for instance...We bin there, done that. Never helped. And now that the US prison system is privately owned and operated...Did you know that? I did not either until lately...It is just about MONEY...AGAIN...Seems hopeless until we find some people that are not greedy, money driven and murderous dipshits...Jeez. Is that even POSSIBLE?!
By phart [Ignore] 09,Jun,18 10:07 other posts 
Find folks that are not greedy? hehehe, yea right. Lets find that gold at the end of the rainbow!Then we can hire a rent a cop to sit at our doors and when danger comes he can crouch down behind his Crown vic and radio for backup!

Locking up is not to help the person with the issue.Locking up is to preserve the lives of his potential victims.

My old rickety pea shooter has been in the drawer for months. I debated for years about even getting 1 as I have always been naive and figured I didn't need 1 until a few years ago a cripple guy's house was broke into and he got hurt up really bad.Still aint found the assholes that did it.
My pea shooter Hasn't hurt anyone. BUT if someone comes in to do harm, I will take my chances against a jury of 12 over a group of 6 friends toting my dead ass to the grave any day. I refuse to be a easy pin cushion for someone elses uncontrollable inner rage.


By phart [Ignore] 31,May,18 07:53 other posts 
Porn and abortion No,that is dumb,but those other reasons, yep,related in my opinion.
Attention seeking kids thinking life has a reset button just like the latest gadget.
I would add,kids being bullied and the school doing nothing to prevent bullying but say you shouldn't do it.That is like saying "don't Steal" It still happens.
How damn hard is it to fence in a school and have 1 vehicle gate and 1 walk in gate? Not hard at all. But no,let's have a AstroTurf football field and plenty of trees and ways for shooters to get in. Prioritys ,some folks have them backwards.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 31,May,18 08:08 other posts 
"Porn and abortion No,that is dumb."

Some republicans say so and, most definitely, they're the religious types (i.e. the majority of them). You think it's dumb and so do I and many other people, but ask one of those "good" bible belt americans if pornography causes school shootings and they'll agree.

"fence in a school and have 1 vehicle gate and 1 walk in gate"

And America will be known as the no. 1 country in the so-called free world whose schools resemble prisons. Schools are free man, free places of learning. Think of the consequences of such an act. What is needed, in the long run, is reformation of the whole society, education and (as aussieman said below) discipline the kids and also help them when they're in crisis. In a society where medical care is only available to the ones who can afford it, where kids grow up in extreme poverty, in conditions that are worse than those in the third world, school shootings have become a fashionable way of expressing their anger.

Take a look at the just released video of the k1d who caused the shooting in Florida:
only registered users can see external links
The k1d is obviously SICK. Had he ever had a parent, a friend, to turn to? How did he grow up? In what conditions? I don't know, but I suspect he never received medical and human help. It is NOT normal for a k1d to pick up a gun and shoot everyone to express his anger.
By phart [Ignore] 31,May,18 15:28 other posts 
Right off the bat I agree 110% that discipline is very much needed for ****. No doubt in any sane persons mind about that.
BUT if you stop and think, how many years will it take to reinstate the value of life into **** that grow up to be parents. 50 years? 100 years?.
Granted, if we could wake up in the morning and folks dust off the old Paddle and they started guiding k1ds back in line things would improve overnight.
BUT there are those that think a k1d is supposed to be free to express themselves and paddling is bad!. Give them a time out or something instead. Time out is time they don't have to do anything. So nothing gained there.

A fence,would take a couple months to budget for,a couple months to install and would protect the current generations from the enemy.While inside the fence the k1ds could be handed books to read or computer links to read to relearn the value of life and say 50 years from now,the fences would be rusted and ready to take down because they would no longer be needed. It is a immediate patch so to speak.Not a ideal final solution.
Now,here is where I will veer off from some folks opinions.

Religion. I know some folks here think it is more evil than the Devil himself. BUT even a atheist would have to agree if they do their research, most religions instill a value of life into their followers. The Bible teaches taking life is a sin for example. When the Bible was in the schools and most homes 40 years ago,school shootings weren't as common.
I expect the back lash to this from a liberal would be the AK47 and AR15's were not common weapons so the kids had nothing to shoot with. Well the last shooting I remember hearing about was a old 38 pistol and a shotgun. Those were handy back then. Some shotguns were in the back windows of seniors pickups back when I was in high school. Religion is 1 of the differences from back then to now.
Pills they give k1ds to "treat" their problems,I blame alot of this shit on those. The k1ds are influenced by the medicines.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 31,May,18 17:56 other posts 
"Religion is more evil
than the devil. "

Now, this is a religious statement.

The word "evil" is invented by religions,
especially the so-called monotheistic ones.

What's a devil? Some kind of thing
that is taught by some religions.

Religion is just a collection of
irrelevant doctrines. And, yes, unfortunately, we can't get rid of it
so easily as it's the product of thousands
of years of stupidity. Stupidity that helped
people survive 20 thousand years ago,
but which is irrelevant now.
By phart [Ignore] 31,May,18 20:47 other posts 
I cliced on something and don't know what it was.
But anyway, Let me ask a question.
Let's say there was no religion for a moment.No one believed in anything.
Someone walks in and kills someone in front of you. You were not taught killing is wrong or evil.You were not taught life has value,because that is taught along with other things in religion.
What would your response be to the killing you witnessed?
"Oh that is terrible" "Someone call the law to have the killer arrested". Most responses you come up with would have some reference or basis from religion's value of life.
Without it,you would not know killing was wrong or terrible or evil or whatever. Some warped people might even take think it was cool to watch someone take their last breath.
What would society base it's concept of right and wrong on without previous influence of religion?
Without it,would any of us be left? I mean folks would just go out and kill for the fun of it. Well some already do but I guess it would be more popular.
Just food for thought.
If we are to teach kids it is wrong to kill,and religion has to be left out of the picture,we need to have something to base the lessons on don't we?
By leopoldij [Ignore] 31,May,18 22:32 other posts 
Religion has nothing to do with values. The word belief is silly. I grew up in an environment where religion was totally absent. I have lots of relatives and friends who do great humanitarian work without religion. It's hard for you to understand that because you're american, you live in a theocratic country where "god bless you" is considered a wish rather than stupidity. Even the president has to pretend to be religious to be liked by people. But, as I said, it's hard to get rid of a disease like religion that has, for evolutionary reasons, been adopted by humans very early on as a primitive means of making sense of the world.

In fact, it is religion that causes republican senators say stupidities like pornography causes shootings. Religion makes your brain numb.

The other absurd thing about religion is that, no matter how much evidence you give against it, you will never convince a religionist to rid of the disease.
By cumjohn [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 03:03 other posts 
Actually i have even noticed that secular counties are more safer than religious countries. And religion dont make anyone better people. Religious people are just saying otherwise to make other feel guilty.


According to republican beliefs where abortion ja porn, and maybe liberals and gays are to blame for school shooting, then europeans schools should be like war zones.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 03:36 other posts 
You're young and from Finland, so you're probably not aware of the kind of dogmatism, indoctrination and backwardness thriving in many pockets of the US. Can you believe that 38% of Americans are not just religious but also idiots, that is, they are convinced that the earth is only six thousand years old? (In reality it's more than for billion years old.) And they think so because it's part of their twisted religion. I know it's hard to believe because, especially in Finland, anyone with such a belief is probably in an asylum. And if you think that 38% is high, I got good news for you: it's low; it used you be much higher: only registered users can see external links So there is hope.
By cumjohn [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 10:43 other posts 
Wow. I was thinking that number was somewhere above 50%, maybe over 60%. Things are getting better there.

What i dont understand about religious people, is that while they make lots of debate about gay rights, womens rights, evolution and morality and much others, they dont check the facts before adding their views for debate. Example when they say that evolution is false, they argue that "why my bike dont turn into whale if i left that there for years?". Or that there is no evidence. Everyone who knows about evolution theory know whats wrong with those arguments. Science is like their worst enemy and always wrong.
--------------------------------------- added after 112 seconds

And when it comes to guns. Byers backrounds must be checked. No matter how much conservatives wish that even crazy ones can get them.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 12:00 other posts 
Terve dude, mitä kuuluu? You live in Finland. Therefore, indeed, you can't understand the unfathomable stupidity and irrationality that governs the bible belt in the US. The way people think there (not everyone, of course, but the majority) is akin to the way they think in Saudi Arabia. The only difference is that they have a different god. Actually, it is probably worse than Saudi Arabia because the latter is a dictatorship and people have no choice other than BE religious, whereas, in the US, the have the freedom. But they choose to behave as if they were muslim fundamentalists.

Don't go to evolution. This is a serious religious matter for them. It's so bad that they influence schools, politics, everything. In Kentucky, the State supported the building of a "replica" of Noah's Arc only registered users can see external links . It's done by the same guy who has the anti-evolution museum only registered users can see external links where (some) schools send k1ds for "education". In Florida, almost next to Disney World, there's a theme park, the Holy Land experience only registered users can see external links , almost next to Disney World, where people go watch Jesus be crucified a few times per day.

Imagine such things in Finland! Impossible. In fact, if you tell Finnish people that the above exist in the US they won't believe you. Alas, they do.

Now, talking about guns, in Finland people own a lot of guns. Of course, the population is much smaller and most of the guns are used for sporting. I don't know how hard it is for someone to get a gun in Suomi, but I presume that if someone had a gun on display in Finland, e.g., if he went to university with a gun attached to his belt, he would be arrested. Not in Texas. In Texas they passed a law last year making it legal for students to bring guns in the university classroom. only registered users can see external links And they do. My friends tell me they know students who carry their guns in classes just because they want to piss off the lecturer. If the lecturer complains, they report him/or her and he/she gets disciplined or dismissed.
I've seen many many stupid things happening in different countries, from US to Bangladesh, from Antarctica to Finland, when I worked for international organizations.

As we said, however, the percentage of creationists in the US HAS gone down. 38% is a very rough estimate, it's still not great, but it's better than 50%.
By phart [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 13:13 other posts 
But back to my question, what is used as a base line for right and wrong in the "non infected" world?

There is no book,there is no instinct so there has to be some baseline for a parent to say,"Son,don't take that gun and hurt someone,it is wrong". When the son ask, "what makes it wrong?". What is the reply?
You could say "It is against the law". "but dad,why is it against the law?"
Until we can give solid answers, there will be death and unanswered questions.
By admin [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 13:15 other posts 
It seems that you grew up in an environment of educated people. Take it from someone who have seen a lot of ghettos with savage uneducated people - stupid people having a religion is better than stupid people just left on their own. They behave pretty much as anim@ls driven by primitive urges and not understanding consequences of their actions, easily hurting each other and their kids. Religion conditions their behavior via fear to acceptable levels of cruelty.

That being said, on a certain level of education (which is not so high by modern standards) religion stops being useful and starts being a handicap and a deterrent.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 17:58 other posts 
Indeed. However, I did say that I admit it is pretty hard to get rid of religion, precisely because there's lack of education, collapse of society, poverty, and so on. Take Russia, for instance. Orthodoxy was not part of the equation for years and, suddenly, communism collapses and you get "out of nowhere" millions of pious Orthodox Christians. They even made the last Czar and his family saints. Even Stalin appears as a religious icon next to Bogomatir in some Moscow churches. As for Putin himself, he's now a "true" Christian. Indeed, religion is the opium of the masses.
By admin [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 19:45 other posts 
It's not out of nowhere. Church was working with KGB during USSR. Why do you think it was allowed it to exist. They acted as additional branch of informants and sentiment measurement. Putin was KGB. He just does what he was taught to do. He uses church with its outdated religion and also lying mass media to control and dumben the masses. It's deliberate. Religious leaders in Russia are total disgrace. Greedy pigs, bathing in gold and riding in expensive cars. They sell tobacco and alcohol without taxes under shelter of their religion. Putin allowed them to control some shady businesses in exchange for support and brain washing for his behalf. I don't know if Putin is religious, he might become one under a fear of approaching death. But I'd rather suppose it's a part of the show. Which he may already take too serious himself. People tend to start believing lies they invented for others if they live with them for too long.
By #554098 02,Jun,18 00:18
I want to agree with you totally, on the concept of Religion as a framework, and basis to prevent a person from descending into the Basal "reptilian" brain mode, where it is pure survival. Religion, can be a guiding **** to lead many out of the desperation of their lives. In that, I totally agree.
However, what 'Religion' and what is the basis?? Some radical 'Fundamentalist' kinds of 'Religions' have become quite popular to the ones you speak of, as they make promises, and offer things, much the way that Hitler did, during his rise to power in the 1930's. Others have used the same 'emotional' appeals to the 'oppressed' to motivate them to do GREAT EVIL, in the name of 'Religion'.
I would certainly agree that 'Education' is rather the thorn in the A$$ of 'Religion'. I think ultimately, though, THINKING, and a person that can reason, and choose for themselves, with good tools, based in a solid education, is far better than Religion, of any kind.
Anyway, it seems the wrong topic to discuss on a site like this!!!!
By admin [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 06:46 other posts 
Indeed education is better than religion. But religion is much, much simpler to "teach" to people, especially to brute people.

As for wrong subject for this site - you'd be surprised how many people specify as reason for deleting their account something like "this is sinful I need to reconnect with god".
By leopoldij [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 20:16 other posts 
I'm glad you use italics around the word "teach" because the act of making someone obey a certain religion is not teaching. Teaching requires explaining and there's nothing to explain in religion. You just ask someone to believe in totally unsubstantiated things.

Thank you for the information about why some people quit this site. Of course, the word "sin" is idiotic. It has been introduced by monotheistic religions, Christianity notwithstanding, religions that are obsessed with one's genitals. Although There is no connection between morality and sex drive, the aforementioned religions have almost as their primary goal to suppress sex and sexual drive. The religious person, who unfortunately suffers from the religious disease, can't think independently and makes correlations between unrelated things (sex and mortality). And they torture themselves. The human mind is amazing. It creates fake idols (gods, deamons, fairies, devils, spirits, etc) and then completely submits to them.

Incidentally, the word submission in Arabic is islam.
By phart [Ignore] 08,Jun,18 22:26 other posts 
"Teaching requires explaining and there's nothing to explain in religion."
Well, apparently there is not much to explain in atheism either.I have been trying to get a explanation of where the "common sense" comes from that prevents killing among atheist and haven't got that answer yet! Apparently they have a fail safe in place of some kind as they are not extinct!
A rule,a idea,a concept,a fantasy,a law, all come from somewhere. The notion not kill your fellow man has to come from somewhere. At least if someone is muslim and they blow themselves up trying to kill someone else, others can point at their religion and say,that is where the idea came from.
A school shooter, somehow has it in their mind it is ok to kill. They lost that common sense or were never taught it.
So if religions concepts are not a suitable solution, then the non believers should be able to step up to the plate with a explanation or concept founded on something else.

Just trying make a productive conversation. Religion is loosing ground among the young.Churches are loosing members and so forth. So perhaps we can't depend on religion to maintain some control over human impulses.
So it might behoove the atheist to start explaining how their system works.
By #554098 08,Jun,18 22:12
Great point!! Too many 'Knuckle-draggers,' and the 'Higher Power' of 'Religion' keeps them in line, at their level of understanding.
It's sometimes hard to get out of the 'intellectual' and imagine the 'small minds'. . .
By phart [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 13:36 other posts 
As to how the **** grew up. Sadly the past 30 years it has been dump them off at the mall as soon as they can walk or just let them roam. Parents give the k1ds a cell phone and suddenly think,"Oh,I am just a text away if they need me".

And think about it for a minute seriously. If you were 15, and had a issue you needed help with.Let's say you got a girl pregnant.Ok, 1 parent that won you in a divorce case 10 years ago is a drunk laid up in the bed fucking someone else at the moment.The other parent is in prison.The step parent is 3 states away working all the time and h8tes your guts. You need advice on how to deal with a friend you fucked and her belly is swelling up.Who do you turn to?
Since some folks think religion should be out of picture,we will eliminate a preacher or other religious leader from the list to select from.
That leaves, A doctor? A policeman? A tv talk show host? I mean really,who would you go to? The foot ball coach that gave you the cheap rubber that busted? The principle that is having a affair with the coach?
You go "home",a place you hat3 and there is a gun.Hum,judging from how my video game works this thing could get me some attention from someone. I could eliminate all my problems and run and hide under the 4th street bridge the rest of my life! Yep,that is my solution.


There is no 1 to trust anymore.. think about that and get back to me as to who you feel could be trusted with my example problem?
By leopoldij [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 17:53 other posts 
These problems occur in your mind because you're in the US that is largely a religious country. There's no religion in the places where I live and we're fine. I understand you can't see what it can be like without religion because religion, in the US, is embedded in the system, just as in Saudi Arabia. A Muslim person would argue like you do. I don't blame you that you can't understand. I know you can't, just as millions of other bible belt Americans and Saudi Muslims can't. It's not your fault. You just live in a very insular society, and so do Saudis, and can't imagine anything else other than what you see around you which is a very very bleak sick society, full of churches, evangelists, creationists, and other such awful types.
By phart [Ignore] 01,Jun,18 19:14 other posts 
These problems are not in my mind,they are on the streets of America.

With all the folks over here now trying to change things, it would sure be nice if they could EXPLAIN their "system" since it is so incompatible with ours.


I am asking for a explanation of how this system of no religion works without a foundation of something.With the lack of beliefs,the lack of any kind of written word,with the lack of any tradition, with the lack of any guidance at all,what keeps you folks from exterminating each other?


For example, Thou shalt not kill


Ok, so it comes from the 10 commandments.


You don't have those, so how do you explain to a offspring not to kill? Back to my question ask in a different way.


What are the building blocks of a system without any religious influence?


Not arguing, trying to understand.


It seems we all can agree we don't want our offspring shooting each other while they are "being educated".


But I am trying to figure out how in the hell we are supposed to teach them otherwise with nothing under our feet but hot air.Youth question authority. Ask any parent.So authority needs to have a strong foundation and not slip.
By cumjohn [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 03:05 other posts 
Now you sound like that youre saying that person without religious beliefs is somewhat immoral. Like people are naturally so evil that they need religious guidance to respect each other.

Anyone who has any common sense, knows that everyone must be respected. Religion is not needed there.
By phart [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 09:22 other posts 
No no,not saying that at all. I am just trying to determine what is used for a base line in deciding good and bad. That's all.
Where did the common sense come from? It sure as hell aint instinctive.
When someone questions their "right" to kill or steal, something has to be in place to enforce the rule of don't do it.

jsmythe73 seems to understand
By cumjohn [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 11:45 other posts 
Of course i admit that many moral rules that most people follows are based from religion at least some part.


However, due to the rise of civilication and humanity on near history, most peoples with non or very few christian beliefs also acknowleges that example stealing from other people and killing is wrong. Therefore concept "not one can be moral without religion" is outdated. Still many people believes that idea.


There has been at least one study, that everywhere most people, even atheist believe that atheist are more immoral than other, except here in Finland and New Zealand.


only registered users can see external links
By leopoldij [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 20:00 other posts 
You can't understand, no matter what arguments you are presented with simply because you are religionist. Like millions of bible belt Americans. You can't understand either that there's no such thing as good/bad dichotomy.

I you you have not travelled much outside the US and you haven't come across other cultures
Neither have you delved in other religions. Your version of Christianity is just a religion among hundreds of others. By only knowing your religion (and it's just an unfortunate accident of birth that you have it) you are in no position to discuss in any semi - intelligent way. That's fine man. You're just one of millions of Americans. It's not your fault.

I also bet you can't read another language other than English. So you can't really see what's elsewhere. In fact, if you knew, your whole world view would be shaken.
By phart [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 20:38 other posts 
No,I never wasted my time learning a language I would not need to function in my daily life.I live in the US, and if I travel, I have enough sense to adapt at that time as needed. And if something is here I can't read,there is Google translate.

qoute

"You can't understand either that there's no such thing as good/bad dichotomy. "

To tell me that I can't understand and leave the question unanswered is not much different than you asking me to find Budda or Jesus and get their autograph to prove to you there is a God. You are asking me to have faith in your ideals without any solid evidence. Not having a religion doesn't seem much different in the long term than having 1.

To say I can't understand,is to say I can't be educated, or I am to dumb,or that you can't explain it. I feel like if you took the time to explain you probably could. I refrain from calling people stupid unless they really try hard to prove they are.


Also,I think if I took the time to read it I could at least get a glimpse of how others think.


Sometimes a complete understanding is not needed for that ah ha moment to happen you know.


I have tried my damnest to imagine a "Bubble Boy" type situation where as offspring would be kept in a bubble environment with only food water and a simple 6th grade education. No outside influence other wise and then turn it loose on it's 18 anniversary of it's coming into the world.


I wonder how it would react to seeing another human.Would it steal the other humans food or would it find a gun and kill the other human? Would it go to a school and shoot people?


Folks with alternative views of life could make alot of headway in getting along with others if they explained themselves a bit better as to how they came about their ideas,lifestyle and moral compass.


Then once that understanding is achieved, you take that knowledge to the class room,the doctors office and the jail.


IF you help these folks understand killing is not a desirable social behavior then alot of our problems would dwindle.Lack of a compass has led alot of these shooters to the decision to kill.


The number of puss's and dicks they saw on the web aint got a thing to do with shooting people.I must say the NRA dropped the ball on that and it rolled under the bleachers.
By leopoldij [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 20:06 other posts 
Morality has NOTHING to do with religion.
Morality is just the product of evolution.
**** are moral too.
Religion is a disease in the human brain,
an unfortunate product of natural selection,
it Is the price we pay for having developed
an intelligent brain over hundreds of thousands of years.

Any species that develops intelligence will probably
also develop religion at some point. Other human ****
in the past most likely had religion too. Homo neaderthalensis
for example has evidently had religious traits too.
We're not sure about other **** as they've been extinct
for hundreds of thousands of years.
--------------------------------------- added after 34 seconds

**** = an1mals
By phart [Ignore] 02,Jun,18 20:40 other posts 
To say morality is a product of evolution is to say it is instinctive.


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